second commercial building on the same lot.

[BR2]

how close can I put a second building. I have a existing office 6000 sq. ft. , I would like to but a 5800 sq. ft. daycare, 11 ft. away. building code inspector says it must be 20

 

[cda]

welcome

Under PA codes correct??

Is this all on the same owner property??

 

[BR2]

how close can I put a second building. I have a existing office 6000 sq. ft. , I would like to but a 5800 sq. ft. daycare, 11 ft. away. building code inspector says it must be 20

Yes it is Pa. code, and yes it is on the same lot.

 

[RLGA]

Depends on the construction type of the existing building and the construction type of the proposed building. With that information, we can work from there.

 

[BR2]

Depends on the construction type of the existing building and the construction type of the proposed building. With that information, we can work from there.

Existing building is a office with a one hour fire rating and projected new building will be a daycare. thanks again

 

[ADAguy]

Maybe you have a zoning/land use separation issue?

 

[BR2]

Maybe you have a zoning/land use separation issue?

maybe, Im not sure.I found a youtube video : two or more buildings on the same lot ,from the 2006 ibc book, explaining it. The code officer says it changed, but he cant show me where.

 

[RLGA]

Existing building is a office with a one hour fire rating and projected new building will be a daycare. thanks again

That really doesn't tell me much. Is it Type I (A or B), Type II (A or B), Type III (A or B), Type IV, or Type V (A or B)?

 

[RLGA]

Is the existing building sprinklered and will the new building be sprinklered? What is the area of openings (doors and windows) that are within each of the walls that face each other? What is the area of each of the walls that face each other?

Answers to these questions and the construction types previously requested play an important part in determining how the two buildings will co-habitat the same lot and their separation distance.

Otherwise, the best I can do is to assume they are Type VB construction, non-sprinklered, which would require a 20-foot separation at a minimum. If I have the answers to the previous questions, then there is a possibility for no minimum required separation.

 

[cda]

Yes it is Pa. code, and yes it is on the same lot.

Ask the nice inspector for the code section he is getting the 20 feet from

So you can study it and also post the section number here .

 

[RLGA]

Ask the nice inspector for the code section he is getting the 20 feet from

So you can study it and also post the section number here .

I can almost guarantee that the citation will be to Table 602, which requires a 10-foot fire separation distance between Type VB buildings with Group B, I, or E (depending on specific design features of the day care) and an imaginary line located between the buildings.

However, they do not require any separation distance if they can be considered as portions of a single building per the exception to Section 705.3. However, if that doesn't work out, then the percentage of openings in the exterior walls could require a greater separation than the 20 feet.

 

[jar546]

There is simply not enough information with this question to give a good answer. So many factors, so little facts.

 

[steveray]

Ask your designer....

 

[Builder Bob]

Remember, your new construction cannot make the existing building non - code compliant with the codes upon which it was constructed nor can it make the building non-code compliant with current codes for the new construction requirements.

 

[BR2]

There is simply not enough information with this question to give a good answer. So many factors, so little facts.

Thanks for the help, the existing building is a group B. The new building will be a group E.

 

[BR2]

The code office is saying the imaginary line starts ten feet from the existing building, then you must be ten ft. from there. My engineer says the imaginary line is the existing building, then you must be ten ft. away.

 

[SCBO1]

BR2, real important, does either building have a fire sprinkler system?

 

[BR2]

The code officer says the 20 ft. is in 2009 IBC section 702.1 and 705.3 , but im not reading it that way.

 

[BR2]

BR2, real important, does either building have a fire sprinkler system?

They do not, because I was told it was less than 12000 sq. ft.

 

[classicT]

A registered design professional needs to be hired.

This forum is not here to help DIY'ers perform code analysis and design. The lack of answers to the simple questions above are at minimum necessary to begin answering your questions. Hire a professional who can answer these questions and provide a complete scope and plans that are code compliant.

 

[RLGA]

The code office is saying the imaginary line starts ten feet from the existing building, then you must be ten ft. from there. My engineer says the imaginary line is the existing building, then you must be ten ft. away.

Your engineer is partially correct--an imaginary line is required between the two buildings, but each building must be at least 10 feet from that line to have non-rated exterior walls. Based on the information provided, the inspector is correct.

If you design the new day care with a 1-hour exterior wall that faces the other building, then you can locate your imaginary line 10 feet from the existing building and locate your new building 1 foot away from the imaginary line. However, there are some complications for the new building: (1) you cannot have any overhangs (you may be required to have parapets per Section 705.11), (2) no openings are permitted in that wall, and (3) the wall must be rated for fire exposure from both sides.

For the existing building, there may also be complications. The line can only be placed at the 10-foot distance from the existing building if the wall has no more than 15% of its area used for unprotected openings. If openings exceed 15% of the wall area, but less than 25%, then that imaginary line will have to be pushed out to 15 feet from the existing building. If openings exceed 25% but not more than 45% of the wall area, then the imaginary line must be moved out further to 20 feet. If the openings exceed 45% but not more than 70%, add another 5 feet for a total of 25 feet between the existing building and the imaginary line. Only at a 30-foot distance can you have unlimited, unprotected opening area for an exterior wall of a nonsprinklered building. If the walls of the existing building are in fact rated for 1 hour (per one of your previous emails), the 10-foot distance can be reduced, but you would still have to place the imaginary line based on the area of existing openings in the wall as previously explained.

If you have drawings you can share, that would help. Otherwise, all you will get is our best guess based on the information provided.

 

[BR2]

A registered design professional needs to be hired.

This forum is not here to help DIY'ers perform code analysis and design. The lack of answers to the simple questions above are at minimum necessary to begin answering your questions. Hire a professional who can answer these questions and provide a complete scope and plans that are code compliant.

Sorry. if you read everything you would have seen, I paid a professional engineer to do the drawings and submit them, where the discrepancy came in was in the code officers review, saying the new building must be 20 ft. away. I was not trying to waste anyones time. We are just starting the building, there were no citations issued.

 

[BR2]

Your engineer is partially correct--an imaginary line is required between the two buildings, but each building must be at least 10 feet from that line to have non-rated exterior walls. Based on the information provided, the inspector is correct.

If you design the new day care with a 1-hour exterior wall that faces the other building, then you can locate your imaginary line 10 feet from the existing building and locate your new building 1 foot away from the imaginary line. However, there are some complications for the new building: (1) you cannot have any overhangs (you may be required to have parapets per Section 705.11), (2) no openings are permitted in that wall, and (3) the wall must be rated for fire exposure from both sides.

For the existing building, there may also be complications. The line can only be placed at the 10-foot distance from the existing building if the wall has no more than 15% of its area used for unprotected openings. If openings exceed 15% of the wall area, but less than 25%, then that imaginary line will have to be pushed out to 15 feet from the existing building. If openings exceed 25% but not more than 45% of the wall area, then the imaginary line must be moved out further to 20 feet. If the openings exceed 45% but not more than 70%, add another 5 feet for a total of 25 feet between the existing building and the imaginary line. Only at a 30-foot distance can you have unlimited, unprotected opening area for an exterior wall of a nonsprinklered building. If the walls of the existing building are in fact rated for 1 hour (per one of your previous emails), the 10-foot distance can be reduced, but you would still have to place the imaginary line based on the area of existing openings in the wall as previously explained.

If you have drawings you can share, that would help. Otherwise, all you will get is our best guess based on the information provided.

Thank you Very much, guess I was hoping to save the additional footage for a road on the back side of the new building. Thanks again for your time.

 

[RLGA]

ci·ta·tion
1. a quotation from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work.

For code purposes, this means the specific requirement in the code.