Section E3603.4 in the IRC

[globe trekker]

I need some assistance please!

From the 2006 IRC: Section 3603.4 ( and from Article 210.11©(3) from

the 2008 NEC ): Bathroom branch circuit.

"A minimum of one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply

bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets

for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be

supplied in accordance with Section E3602."

As I understand this code section, it seems to be limiting the outlets

supplied to a particular bathroom, to ONLY that bathroom. However, I have

a Mike Holt Illustrated NEC Guide that is saying " it is ok to supply other

bathroom GFCI rated receptacles from one bathroom GFCI rated receptacle."

If the code section is saying "Such circuits shall have no other outlets", ...isn't

a receptacle in another bathroom an outlet in another room?

Can someone please cite some code section(s) to clarify this conundrum.

Thank you!

.

 

[Robert Ellenberg]

If you have 3 bathrooms, you can put the outlets of all three on a single circuit provided you put any lights, fans, etc. on another circuit(s). Or you can put the outlet, fan and lights in a single bathroom on a single 20 amp circuit by themselves but nothing but that one bath can go on it.

 

[globe trekker]

Robert,

Can you please provide a code section to allow the multi-receptacle install,

...in separate Residential bathrooms? Thanks!

.

 

[jar546]

If you have 3 bathrooms, you can put the outlets of all three on a single circuit provided you put any lights, fans, etc. on another circuit(s). Or you can put the outlet, fan and lights in a single bathroom on a single 20 amp circuit by themselves but nothing but that one bath can go on it.

Exactly. When you run 2 or 3 or 4 bathrooms on one 20amp circuit, only the receptacles in the bathrooms can be on that circuit.

If you run the 20A circuit to one bathroom, you can use that circuit for just the receptacle or the receptacle and lights, fan, etc.

 

[jar546]

Robert,Can you please provide a code section to allow the multi-receptacle install,

...in separate Residential bathrooms? Thanks!

.

You already did

2006 IRC: Section 3603.4 ( and from Article 210.11©(3) from

the 2008 NEC

 

[jar546]

It does not say 1 20A circuit per bathroom, just that the receptacles have to be on a 20A circuit that only supplies the receptacles unless the circuit only supplies 1 bathroom

 

[globe trekker]

Thanks Jeff for the input!

Both code sections [ E3603.4 & Art.210.11©(3) ] are almost identical.

From the 2008 NEC, ...Article 210.11©(3): "Bathroom branch circuit. One 20A,

120V branch circuit must be provided for the receptacle outlets required by

210.52(D) for a dwelling unit bathroom [ <--- meaning a "single" bathroom

only ]. This 20A bathroom receptacle circuit must not serve any other

outlet, such as bathroom lighting outlets or receptacles in other rooms."

By definition, isn't a receptacle an outlet?, AND wouldn't "or receptacles in

other rooms" mean a bathroom as well?

I'm really confused!

.

 

[jar546]

An outlet can be a: light, fan, smoke detector, receptacle, etc.

You are reading too much into it. (don't we all)

May need someone else to jump in here an explain in a different way.

 

[Bryan Holland]

Follow me thru the following code sections and you will see what I mean when I call this the NEC loop-de-loop:

1. 210.11©(3) - This sections calls for at least one 20A branch circuit to supply bathroom receptacle outlets and NO OTHER OUTLETS.

2. 210.11© Exception - This exception states where the 20A circuit supplies a single bathroom, other outlets in that same bathroom can be supplied IF you comply 210.23

3. 210.23(A) - This section states that 20A branch circuits are permitted to supply a combination of outlets such as lighting and receptacle outlets, EXCEPT...

4. 210.23(A) Exception - This exception states the 20A branch circuit to bathrooms as required in 210.11© may only supply receptacle outlets.

So here's the loop. Can the bathroom branch circuit also supply the lights and exhaust fan?

210.11©(3) says NO.

210.11© excecption says YES, but...

210.23(A) says YES.

210.23(A) exception says NO, see 210.11©

HA!

 

[globe trekker]

Good input and explanation Bryan! What is the "most restrictive", as per

Section R102.1 in the ( 2006 ) IRC?

Because of your "loop-de-loop" listed code sections, ...I defaulted to the

"most resrictive" and applied "No" to a recent install by an electrician.

Now, I am 2nd, ...3rd, ...4th, ...5th guessing my decision.

.

 

[raider1]

Good input and explanation Bryan! What is the "most restrictive", as perSection R102.1 in the ( 2006 ) IRC?

Because of your "loop-de-loop" listed code sections, ...I defaulted to the

"most resrictive" and applied "No" to a recent install by an electrician.

Now, I am 2nd, ...3rd, ...4th, ...5th guessing my decision.

.

There is no "Most Restrictive" section.

The gerneral rule in 210.11©(3) is that at least one 20 amp branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s).

This circuit shall supply only receptacle outlets in bathrooms it can supply any number of receptacles and any number of bathrooms.

Now there is an exception to 210.11©(3) that permits a 20 amp branch circuit for bathroom receptacles to also supply lighting loads and other utilization equipment provided that that circuit only supply a single bathroom.

If you failed an installation where a single 20 amp circuit supplied only receptacles in multiple bathrooms then that would be an incorrect call.

Chris

 

[globe trekker]

Chris ( and others ),

Thank you for your input! I am pretty slow at understanding this, so please bear with me.

Section E3603.4... " This 20A bathroom receptacle circuit must not serve any other

outlet, such as bathroom lighting outlets or receptacles in other rooms."

Doesn't the GFCI rated receptacles installed in other [ bathrooms ] rooms violate

this statement? I understand the part about other outlets, such as lighting,

cord & plug equipment, fans, etc., but the part about installing receptacles in

other rooms has got me!

I referenceed Section R102.1 [ in the `06 IRC ], because IMO, I believe that

[ according to the wording of E3603.4 ], ...DOES restrict the 20A circuit to be

in just the one bathroom ( i.e. - "the most restrictive" )

FWIW, I understand that it is common practice to install GFCI rated receptacles

for bathroom(s) in this manner.

.

 

[raider1]

Chris ( and others ),Thank you for your input! I am pretty slow at understanding this, so please bear with me.

Section E3603.4... " This 20A bathroom receptacle circuit must not serve any other

outlet, such as bathroom lighting outlets or receptacles in other rooms."

Ok, E3603.4 says, "A minimum of one 20-ampere-rated branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s)."

This sentence does not limit the bathroom receptacles served by this branch circuit to a single bathroom.

That section goes on the read "Such circuits shall have no other outlets." IMHO you are reading too much into this if you are getting that other receptacle outlets in other bathrooms can't be served by the required 20 amp circuit.

Doesn't the GFCI rated receptacles installed in other [ bathrooms ] rooms violatethis statement?

No it does not.

I understand the part about other outlets, such as lighting,cord & plug equipment, fans, etc., but the part about installing receptacles in

other rooms has got me!

I referenceed Section R102.1 [ in the `06 IRC ], because IMO, I believe that

[ according to the wording of E3603.4 ], ...DOES restrict the 20A circuit to be

in just the one bathroom ( i.e. - "the most restrictive" )

FWIW, I understand that it is common practice to install GFCI rated receptacles

for bathroom(s) in this manner.

.

Again the words in E3603.4 do not support your statement that only the receptacles in a single bathroom can be served by the required 20 amp circuit.

I would also like to point out that if what you are saying is true then the exception to E3603.4 would make no sense because the circuit would already be limited to a single bathroom and therefore the rule would permit you to add lighting and other loads to the receptacle circuit.

Chris

 

[globe trekker]

Chris ( and others ),

Thanks for your patience and expanations!

I do not fully understand the wording yet, so I will have to process it

some more.

I am beginning to have one of those "the light bulb is coming on"

moments!

.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

globe trekker stated; "it seems to be limiting the outlets supplied to a particular bathroom, to ONLY that bathroom"

Perhaps by examining the qualifiers a distinction can be made between "bathroom" and "a bathroom".

The exception allows when this branch circuit does not supply more than one bathroom it can feed all other outlets within that bathroom.

Back to the previous paragraph where it declares; “shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s)” does not limit this to “a bathroom” or “the bathroom”.

Note the preceding section similarly uses singular verbiage with “the laundry area” in E3603.3 thus limits this branch circuit to only that area or room as it may be.

 

[Bryan Holland]

The problem with this particular code section and others like it is that it really is a design consideration and not a life and property safety issue. What hazard is likely to occur if the receptacles in more than one bathroom are supplied by one circuit. What happens if all the bathroom recetpacles and one lighting outlet are supplied by the one circuit? How many homes were wired befroe this code section came into existance and experience no problems or have developed no hazards?

The point is that it is easy to argue the purpose and reason for a code section when non-compliance results in an instantaneous hazard or fault that results in a fire, shock, or other failure.

This particular code does not really have that great of signifigance. Should it be properly enforced as written, absolutely. Am I loosing sleep over the interpretation of this section... ZZZZZ...NOPE!

 

[globe trekker]

In doing some more research and talking with some other code officials in my area,

they confirm what you all have stated, " ...that it is permissible to attach other GFCI

rated receptacles in other bathrooms", however, if the house has three, four or more

bathrooms, then they will "request" that the Master Bath be on its own circuit, and

the others be own their own circuits, ...in close proximity to each other.

REASONING: They, as well as I, consider the spread out GFCI receptacles to be

a "potential" for an inconvenience to go waaaaaaaaaaaay over to the other side

of the Mc-Mansion to reset that particular tripped receptacle. I understand that

it is not "code", but it sure does sell really well to the home buyer, ...that they

have an additional convenience wired in to their new house.

Again, thanks to you all for your explanations!

.