Section R308.4 in the IRC

[north star]

Good morning to you all!

I am seeking clarification on this section of the IRC code, specifically Item # 6.

"Section R308.4, # 6: Glazing, in an individual fixed or operable panel adjacent to a door where

the nearest vertical edge is within a 24-inch ( 610 mm ) arc of the door in a closed position and

whose bottom edge is less than 60 inches ( 1524 mm ) above the floor of the walking surface."

Can someone please provide a visual diagram of where the measurement is actually referring

to in this section, or possibly some information from the Commentary? I am trying to determine

if a door is too close to a fixed window, ...new construction. Thank You!!

 

[fw.]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Hook your tape measure in the gap between the door and the frame with the door in the closed position, either side. If there is glass within 24 inches it needs to be temepered.

 

[Mule]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Does this help?

 

[JBI]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Mule - Well done! Hope it didn't make your head hurt... :lol:

 

[Min&Max]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

There is no other section of the IRC that I detest as much as the glazing requirements. Appears to have been written by a group of intoxicated engineers.

 

[globe trekker]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

test, test, test

 

[globe trekker]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

I was trying to upload some photos, but have not been able to master the process yet. :?

Now that the ' Photobucket web site' has been deemed an undesirable web site [ because of the

reported trojan horse viruses ], does anyone know of another photo storage site out there, that IS

safe to access?



.

 

[Mule]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

I use Picture Trail. It'f free for a certain amount of storage and relatively cheap if you want to use it for your strorage site for more than the freebie allows.

http://www.picturetrail.com

 

[Heaven]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Does anyone besides me consider a permanently installed doorstop to be a permanent barrier?

 

[Mule]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

I dot understand what you are getting at? What would a door stop have to do with this?

Are you saying if they install a door stop that the glazing would not have to be safety glazing?

 

[JBI]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Heaven - I don't.

But I've also been called a harda$$ more than once.

I've seen too many doorstops that didn't last more than a year to consider them a permanent anything (except maybe a permanent pain in the a$$).

Would a wheel chock be a suitable barrier against vehicle impact in a private garage when protecting equipment?

 

[rktect 1]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

No doorstops. Well, you can have the doors top but the window is still safety glazed.

 

[north star]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Thank you all for your input!

Mule,

Our web site administrator has some serious filters in place, so I cannot view your submitted

pics., but thank you anyway. I will try the ' picturetrail ' site also!

fw.,

Your input is the way I have always interpreted it, I just wanted some electronic affirmation

from this V E R Y talented group of people..

Heaven,

I would not interpret the door stop as a permanent barrier.

 

[kilitact]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Item #3 provides an exception where theirs a permanent barrier. So heaven I'll agree, how can you turn it down

 

[texasbo]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Heaven - I don't. But I've also been called a harda$$ more than once.

I've seen too many doorstops that didn't last more than a year to consider them a permanent anything (except maybe a permanent pain in the a$$).

Would a wheel chock be a suitable barrier against vehicle impact in a private garage when protecting equipment?

You're not being a harda$$; you are right.

Heaven, keep in mind that this section isn't just to keep doors from swinging into windows.

A doorstop is clearly not a "barrier" between the door and the glazing. It is a doorstop. If one of the primary purposes of this section is to require safety glazing in areas subject to human impact loads, how does a doorstop eliminate the potential of human impact?

 

[Heaven]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

I don't believe the section is only for accidental human impact. As quoted from "Building Code Basics- Residential" based on the 2006 IRC and written by Van Note :

"Safety Glass

To prevent serious injury from shards of breaking glass, the IRC requires safety glazing at 11 specific glazing locations as subject to impact by people. For example, glass in doors and adjacent to doors has an increased likelihood of accidental breakage due to actions to open and close the door and the movement of the door itself."

I think permanently installed doorstops qualify in some cases and have approved such.

 

[ccbuilding]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

I always remember the first time I questioned this section, my BO told me that his take on it is that when the guy/gal comes home drunk and it's dark and he mistakes the window for the door while trying to get into the house, the safety glass will keep him from bleeding to death.

His second observation was, if there is a fire in the house and lots of smoke, again the safety glass will save injury when someone trying to escape mistakes the window for the door.

So, no we would not approve a doorstop.

 

[Heaven]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

I agree that there are places where safety glass is warranted due to the considerations you list. There are places that those considerations don't really make sense. In most of the cases where I would approve a doorstop, the glazing is perpendicular to the doorway (and, not at the bottom of the stairs, for instance). The language in the code, and the commentary, leave room for reasonable judgment.

 

[kilitact]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

ccbuilding wrote;

I always remember the first time I questioned this section, my BO told me that his take on it is that when the guy/gal comes home drunk and it's dark and he mistakes the window for the door while trying to get into the house, the safety glass will keep him from bleeding to death.His second observation was, if there is a fire in the house and lots of smoke, again the safety glass will save injury when someone trying to escape mistakes the window for the door.

So no we would not approve a doorstop.

Using this logic to enforce building code regulations, the possibilities would be endless. We could require guards on toilets to keep the drunkard, who’s upchucking, from drowning, or require safety harness’s to keep them from falling down the stairs or in some cases even on flat ground and require fire sprinklers to put out the fire when they fall asleep with a light cigarette, wait we already have that requirement in some states.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

His second observation was, if there is a fire in the house and lots of smoke, again the safety glass will save injury when someone trying to escape mistakes the window for the door.

Without glass shards how will he cut his way to escape, if there are two hungry Velociraptors prowling by the door?

Seriously, this sort of compounding of hypotheses is not good code practice.

That's why the code expects people to escape out of second and third floor windows if there's a fire.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

And indeed there are those who would put exit signs over second or third floor windows... ( I don't do little smiley faces)

I do however agree with one comment: Lets stay away from the componding of hypotheses, and read the code. The code requires safety glazing within a 24" arc, unless a barrier is installed. It doesn't say anything about "unless a device is installed to stop the door". Homespun fixes are never a good idea, especially when they don't come close to accomplishing the intent of the code.

Brudgers: referring to the diagrams Mule provided, are there any of them where you would believe the code allows a doorstop in lieu of safety glazing?

 

[Paul Sweet]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Min & Max said "There is no other section of the IRC that I detest as much as the glazing requirements. Appears to have been written by a group of intoxicated engineers."

Actually I believe it was originally written in Federalese by the Consumer Safety Protection Commission. Intoxicated engineers would write a lot more clearly.

 

[JBI]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Paul, that's fairly debateable... :lol:

 

[Heaven]

Re: Section R308.4 in the IRC

Since barrier is not defined in teh IRC, then the common useage prevails

Definition of barrier:

a structure or object that impedes free movement

Well, that's the definition I like anyway. The word barrier doesn't nessesarily mean "wall". There could be some "barrier" to us understanding each other's point of view.