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Self doubt and tunnel vision

jar546

jar546

CBO
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
12,981
Location
Not where I really want to be
First off I'll admit that being a multi-disciplined inspector waters you down a bit. Even though electrical is my forte I still need to "call a friend" every now and then. Such was the case this Saturday. Being able to give Chris Kennedy a text or call is a great perk, even after I ran this situation by 2 of the commercial inspectors that work for me. Here is how it all went down for those curious:

I arrived at an inspection for a new service. What was installed was not what was on the prints. Initially they were to install the 800 amp service. Instead they submitted a change to break it down into separate services for tenants which would include six separate meter bases. When I arrive I found there was a 1000 amp three phase service installed. The service cables were parallel 350kcmil. There were three conductors for each phase and the neutral. Because I was in a rental car I did not take my codebook with me. My intuition however let me know that something was wrong with that installation. The contractor did not have a codebook on him and I knew that the wire could not be sized any more than 300 or 320 amps. Because the service exceeded 800 A I knew that it needed to be size at 100% of the overcurrent protection device. I had to call one of my guys that was in the office and ask him to open up the book to give me the abs at which point we found it was exactly 310 A for each 350kcmil copper. This confirms my suspicion and I wrote up the installation under 240.4. It was then that he self-doubt started.

The contractor at that point with his partner started to tell me that I must be wrong this installation was specked out by the supply house and poco. I was then told that the conductors were properly sized by another inspector who works at the supply house, therefore I must be wrong. So then I contacted another one of my inspectors to review it with him to make sure that I was not missing something. I did this even though I knew I was correct for some reason there was always some self doubt present. I took some photos left them with the correction notice and that was the end of my Friday. Saturday morning I contacted Chris Kennedy and ran the scenario by him to which he agreed it was definitely a code violation and we were covered by two separate code sections for their installation. Today Sunday I sent two photos to Chris Kennedy and he immediately picked up on another violation. They only ran one equipment around through the center condo and not a ground through the other conduits as required. I never wrote this up because of my tunnel vision. As soon I found the problem with the undersized service conductors I forgot about the rest of the installation since they started to defend themselves saying I was wrong. This is a problem on my hand for allowing myself to become distracted and missing something that I am clearly aware of.

so my question to you is do you find yourself getting distracted from inspections by contractors?

I should have kept my mouth shut until I was fully and completely done with the entire inspection and then reviewed it with them rather than speaking out loud during the inspection allowing the process to lose its fluidity.
 
The flip side of that idea that some contractors exploit is the dead rat theory. They leave an obvious violation for you to find (the dead rat) and hope you don't find anything else.
 
First most contractors do not carry a code book. If I ran into one that was then a large red flag would go up. The situation at hand is very often the case with inspections. Some inspections are simple and straightforward others become more complex. Sometimes we miss things on a simple inspection and other times we find the most complex missing something of major importance.

It breaks down like this! How many inspections and other things are you dealing with at that moment, or day. Sometimes if I have questions or red flags, I just say I need to review this prior to cover or whatever the case may be. Contractors are most often willing to defend their work. I had one on Thursday were the contractor call the office 3 times in an 11/2 and I was in the field. When I looked at the plan what I failed should have been failed. They can always push the envelope.
 
First of all, let me say that for the last few years most of what I inspect is nowhere near as important as a 1000 amp service.

my question to you is do you find yourself getting distracted from inspections by contractors?
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I do my best to tune out distractions. From housewives to hornets. Another one is the damned little yappy dogs that bark the entire time. How about the contractor that stands looking over your shoulder so he can read the violation as you write it and then starts complaining before you are done with the sentence. There have been more than a few times that I have told the contractor to wait outside.

Sometimes the violations are the distraction because they come to me faster than I can write them down.

I sent two photos to Chris Kennedy and he immediately picked up on another violation.
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Chris (and others) do the same thing to me here at the forum. I do it to myself. At least once a week I spot something that I missed. Last week it was three neutrals under a set screw and no p-trap on a condensate drain.

I bet that some people find it unsettling that I take pictures. It's probably worse if I am grinning at the time.
 
RJJ said:
First most contractors do not carry a code book. If I ran into one that was then a large red flag would go up.
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Are you kidding me? We are talking about those nasty little pesky electrons that are always looking for escape routes or to start even more catastrophic trouble. I respect any inspector that questions my installs and am always more than happy to pull out one of my books, discuss and pass.

I have 2 NEC's in my truck, 3 next to me here at my home desk, and 4 at the office. That doesn't include archived editions.

Already have the 2014, 1 for truck and 1 for office. Will have the NECHB for the desk here as soon as its available.

 
mark handler said:
If you have a tablet, you could have the code with you.I have all the CA codes on my tablet
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Mo too and a whole lot more. It is an ipad. What I don't like is the pdf reader. I have tried Adobe, Goodreader and a couple I can't remember. The search function is a letdown. On my laptop I get a window at the side that has the sentence that the word is used in. There may be 200 or 2. On the ipad they always go to the first place the word is used. If that isn't what you are looking for, you hit a forward or reverse button and go to the next instance. There may be 2 or 200. Quite often it is six times in the same paragraph.

The other thing that bathers me is scrolling. Using you finger ends up a hundred pages from where you want to be. If you get within twenty, you got lucky.

So Mark, have you found an awesome pdf reader?
 
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It would seem your first "out" was the installation of something not on the plans. If I were an inspector, and not totally sure of the track I were headed on, I would stop everything there, get the plans approved for the conditions being built, and that would buy time for a thorough inspection.

You could even use the nuclear option by just failing the install altogether since it did not follow plans.

Brent.
 
I am willing to switch to any device that beats what I have now.

If you don't mind telling....what pdf reader do you have? There might be a mac version out there. I am so surprised that nobody has come up with a functional pdf reader for ipad.
 
If in doubt sometimes I write let me research and get back

Especially if they do not have a code book and they changed up the installation

Other times I may see something weird, note and come back to it late on in the inspection when my head is not full of c..p
 
It comes with something called Polaris office, which reads pdfs, doc, xls and other Android type documents
 
jar546 said:
Wow, you hit the mother-load! I wish they had the PA update to the 2009 I-Codes
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From what I see there are not that many changes....

UCC Codes

The UCC Administration and Enforcement regulation has adopted the following codes for use throughout the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, effective 12/31/2012. Only the appendices specified after each code name have been adopted (in addition to the code itself).

International Building Code 2012

Chapter 11 is adopted and requires that buildings and facilities also comply with the accessibility requirements found in other chapters of the International Building Code 2012 and in the ICC/ANSI A117.1-2009 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities standard.

Appendix E (Supplementary Accessibility Requirements) is adopted.

International Building Code 2009 (base code, except for accessibility, for all buildings and structures not regulated by the International Residential Code)

Chapter 1 is not adopted (most of its requirements are incorporated in Chapter 403 of the UCC regulation).

Chapter 27 (Electrical) requires that all electrical components, equipment and systems in buildings and structures covered by the IBC comply with the requirements of NFPA 70-2008, National Electric Code.

Chapter 30 (Elevators) is not adopted. Elevator requirements are found in Chapter 405 of UCC.

Only Appendix H (Signs) is adopted.

International Energy Conservation Code 2009

International Existing Building Code 2009

Work on existing, non-residential buildings can comply with these code requirements or Chapter 34 of the International Building Code 2009.

All appendices and resource information are adopted.

International Fire Code 2009

Adopted only to the extent referenced in the International Building Code 2009.

International Fuel Gas Code 2009

Any LPG requirements are superseded by the requirements of Pennsylvania’s Propane and Liquefied Petroleum Gas Act (and regulations)

No Appendices are adopted.

International Mechanical Code 2009

No Appendices are adopted.

International Performance Code for Buildings and Facilities 2009 (provides alternative compliance approach)

International Plumbing Code 2009

No Appendices are adopted.

International Residential Code 2009 (code for one- and two-family dwellings no more than 3 stories in height)

Only Appendix G (Swimming Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs) is adopted.

International Wildland-Urban Interface Code 2009 (supplementary requirements that may be used to mitigate fire- and life-safety hazards in unique wildland areas)

Accessing the International Codes

The codes as published by the International Code Council are copyrighted and can be purchased from the ICC, either online at: ICC - International Code Council, or by calling the ICC publication office at 1-800-786-4452. The ICC also made copies of its codes accessible online, at no charge. You can access these online. Please note that this free service is very limited in terms of access (i.e., you will only be able to view one code section/subsection at a time, not whole pages) and search and print capabilities. If you want full access and features, you will either need to pay for full electronic access or purchase the desired code book(s).

Note carefully the following remarks regarding these codes.

The International Private Sewage Disposal Code 2009, the International Property Maintenance Code 2009 and the International Zoning Code 2009 are not adopted. However, in addition to the codes listed above, municipalities that elect to enforce the UCC may also adopt and enforce the International Property Maintenance Code (or any other property maintenance requirements). Enforcement of these requirements falls outside the scope of the UCC.

The Department has made several changes to the codes listed above. These relate to fire safety requirements in child day care facilities and the technical standards that apply to elevators and other lifting devices. See section 403.23 and Chapter 405 of the UCC for further details on these changes.

Act 13 of 2004 stipulates that the following stairway tread and riser requirements will apply in all buildings that fall within the scope of the International Residential Code, in all occupancies in Use Group R-3 and within dwelling units in occupancies in Use Group R-2: The maximum stairway riser height shall be 8 ¼ inches (210 mm), the minimum tread depth shall be 9 inches (229 mm); and, a 1-inch (25 mm) nosing must be provided on stairways with solid risers.

The UCC regulations provide for the use of an alternative to Chapter 11 of the International Residential Code (or Chapter 4 of the International Energy Conservation Code), to demonstrate compliance with the energy conservation requirements of the UCC. This alternative compliance path, which can be obtained by clicking on the link below, was developed by the Pennsylvania Housing Research Center at Penn State University and is entitled "Pennsylvania's Alternative Residential Energy Provisions" (to date, released in three versions: 2003, 2006 and 2009).

Pennsylvania Alternative 2009 (if complying with the 2009 International Codes)

Pennsylvania Alternative 2006 (if complying with the 2006 International Codes)
 
Greetings,

I would have asked for an as built dwg to review all of the changed work before I would even make any comments since there was a major change from the approved dwgs. To me the most important elect dwg is the one line. Easy to draw one up too.

BSSTG
 
Jar don't sell yourself short. You know a lot more about electrical then most guys out there and you seem dedicated to do your job well. I am sick of the drive by inspections I have seen around here by some.

Personally I think you did fine. Perhaps you could say I need to check with you but something does not seem correct here.

As a contractor of 30+ years I must admit I have rarely had the code book with me. I never meet the inspectors because I feel it does interfere with them doing their job and quit frankly I don't want to waste my time. If there is an issue I will be home and call with the appropriate articles to argue my case and I would expect the same from the inspector-code art. please..
 
"so my question to you is do you find yourself getting distracted from inspections by contractors?"

It is difficult for me to have a conversation and inspect at the same time. I believe better inspections and dialogue result from a discipline of inspect first, make notes, then engage in dialoque following. Still, I used to be considered unfriendly because I would get out of my truck having a mindset to eliminate anything that seemed to me distracting chatter.

Many people want to be acknowledged by the inspector, or have their knowledge or expertise acknowledged . . . simply for personal affirmation. Others think the whole inspection process including any inspector is an unnecessary unwanted bureuacratic burden and themselves prefer little to no conversation with an inspector. Occasionally, you will have a contractor intent to distract for the sake of distracting. Others want to be there to make immediate corrections for minor additions or corrections.

I believe the bottom line is that a good inspector develops discernment over what is distracting enough to cause a miss and adjusts accordingly. Sometimes that means timing a certain inspection when you know the jobsite is open for inspection but closed for ongoing work. Sometimes that means telling someone forthrightly that any discussion will follow your inspection, and not proceed it. Sometimes that means taking five minutes on the front end to talk about a man's new truck before something productive and meaningful will follow inspectionwise. Find what works. And, if you have a miss becuase of a distraction, try to improve the circumstances to eliminate a future miss.

If a miss doesn't bother you at all, it is my opinion that you are not really an inspector at all , but rather, a poser who found a job inspecting.
 
We would require complete resubmission for review or install per original approved plans.
 
I dont get out in the field much these days as checking plans keeps me pratty busy here. However since the installation was not per the approved plans our field inspectors would have written a notice to revise and re-submit the plans for approval. It can be challenging to keep the distractions down at times. Saws, hammers, nail guns, contractors wanting to chat, homeowners wanting to know how they did on their pet project. I miss things as does everyone else, but all we can do is try to eliminate as many distractions as possible. I used to have the hammering and saws stop in the building I was inspecting until the inspection was finished. The most difficult things for me was finding something I had missed previously and having to say, I know I missed it yesteray, however that doesnt make it right . and it has to be fixed.
 
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