Shower Pan Requirements

[Amish Electrici]

As I design my new bathroom ....

Must a shower ALWAYS have a 2" curb all around it? Would having a second drain allow me to have a curbless pan?

I'd like the shower to be open to the bathroom, with the bathroom floor in general serving as the shower pan. Toilet can be wall-mounted, eliminating that potential leak. The plan for the vanity is to have it empty into a 'floor sink,' which would also serve as a seconary drain should the shower drain become plugged. Each drain will separately connect to the main sewer.

The advantage? A shower that is completely 'barrier free'- plus, no need to worry over any overspray that might get past the curtain.

The entire bathroom will measure about 8' x 10'. The layout would maybe allow 5-ft for a ramp, but "dropping" the floor below the rest of the house would require changes to at least ten floor joists.

What do you think?

 

[GBrackins]

Amish,

check out this link http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

 

[codeworks]

provided the code official will allow it, and the pan ( under pan, rubber) is installed properly, it may fly. we see them here. i personally disagree with a "wide open, no curb design", that's a personal thing. i just don't like them, drop soap, spill shampoo, drop a bottle, it's all over the floor, not contained behind the curb. also, when it comes time to test the pan ( block the drain, flood the naked pan with water to test the pitch, watertightness and leakproofness) prior to installing tile and grout, how do you "curb off "the floor area. that's a biggy. testing these things is problematic. we wet test all shower pans and open floor design pans are pita ( and i ain't talking sandwich)

 

[Doorman]

Sure. It's called a 'Zero Entry Shower'.

Google search of that term turns up several hundred images of layouts.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

I am not sure what reasons a code official could give for prohibiting a zero entry shower design, but I am sure there are some out there that might try. Just say you need it for accessibility and let them try and deny it.

Either way, unless you are slab on grade, I tend to side with codeworks on this one. If not now, eventually it will be pita problem, depending on the care and maintenance involved.

 

[Amish Electrici]

Not to argue, but to explain why I favor this design ....

I'm weary of showers that are too small for comfort. Plus, there ALWAYS seems to be water on the floor outside the shower- even if the water is simply water that drips off of you as you dry off. Shower curbs work both ways - they keep that water from reaching the drain. Plus, the shower stall / shower wand hose is a pretty good way to fill a bucket- and I'd rather not have to lift the pail to get over the curb. ADA / wheelchair access isn't an issue for me- but, who knows, one might want is as selling point later.

In tight quarters - though, in my case, the bathroom is of a decent size - making the entire room the 'shower pan' allows the bather to use the 'aisle' or access areas as he showers - much better than banging your elbow into the wall as you turn about. In my specific layout, the shower area itself will measure about 3' x 5' .... if you include the aisle between the shower and the walk-in tub, 6' x 5'.

In my foreign travels, I encountered many baths with this arrangement, and was pleased with the results. I will admit that it is critical for the floor to have some SLIGHT incline towards the drain.

Reasons for the curb? Popular belief seems to be that this is to trap water in the shower area, lest a drain clog and the entire house flood while the occupant is happily showering away. I expect they hope he will notice it when the water reaches his ankles, and remove the fallen rag from the drain. That's one reason why I intend to have a 'floor sink' under the vanity; it will be a redundant shower drain.

I have had plumbers tell me they can easily make a temporary dam for testing the pan. Yet, these same plumbers seemed to think there was a code issue; that's why I wanted your opinions.

 

[ICE]

I have come across a few and don't think they are anything special from a code point of view. The pan extends several feet past where a dam would be located. As far as a leak test goes, what do we normally do? We fill it full of water and check the slope to the drain. Why is that a problem with a drive-in shower stall? I don't know why we call that a leak test because I've never detected a leak and wouldn't know how.

I had one that was built by the Athletic Boosters Club for a high school football player that became paralyzed. It was a big bathroom on a slab. I did the final inspection only. The floor did not slope to the drain. The floor did slope to an exterior door. I don't know what became of it because I was helping out a nearby jurisdiction for one day.

This is a test that is never done and should be done when the shower stall is done. Fill it with water and let it sit for a day. After the aqua has soaked through to the pan, pull the weenie. Squeegee the excess from the tile and put back the weenie. Now watch for water seeping into the drain. If you get water, you know that the weep holes are working.

That's one reason why I intend to have a 'floor sink' under the vanity; it will be a redundant shower drain.

That's serious overkill that will require a trap primer.

 

[conarb]

Curbless showers have been built for a long time, I've done many for accessibility compliance, others for Europpean type showers. Receptor tests have been required for the 60 years I've been in this trade/business, there used to be a 48 hour test requirement but I just checked and don't see the 48 hours anymore, but the test is still required. We fill to the top of the curb and the field inspector measures the evaporation drop, with curbless showers we just fill as far as we can without the water running out of the room.

411.8.1 Tests for Shower Receptors. Shower receptorsshall be tested for water-tightness by filling with water to

the level of the rough threshold. The test plug shall be so

placed that both upper and under sides of the subpan shall

be subjected to the test at the point where it is clamped

to the drain.

 

[Amish Electrici]

A picture, they say, is worth a thousand words ...

Here is a magazine picture of a layout similar to what I plan:

As for 'priming the trap,' the primary purpose of the floor sink will be to have the vanity -plus an additional hair-wash sink- drain directly into the floor sink, in a manner like shown in this internet pic:

http://www.leducanddexterplumbing.com/photos/prep%20sink-bg.jpg

(Delete the lower shelf, have the sink drain go as directly to the floor sink as possibl. and you get the idea. Drainpipe will not have a trap, but will have a ball valve- no more leaky stoppers! Vacuum break provided at floor level, trap in the floor sink plumbing.)

 

[ICE]

To each his own but a floor sink in a residential bathroom is not something that I would consider.

It will not be self cleaning.

It will be noisy.

Guests will be surprised, especially when they see that loogie.

I know, you're thinking: "Oh yuk, did you have to say that"?

Well yes, yes I did.

Too bad I don't have a picture for you.

"Oh no, that made it worse".