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Single Family residence converted to apartments question (No permits)

N

No Soup for you

Registered User
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
114
Location
New York
In New York State

I have an older, pretty large, single family residence that was converted to 4 separate living units w/o permits.

They now need to legalize.

They are looking to now reduce it to:
1- Main house - Kitchen, Living rm, den and second floor bedrooms etc...
2- Apartment #1 - First floor apartment with kitchen, Living room, two bedrooms
3- Apartment #2 - Second floor apartment, is accessed by an exterior wood stair (also built no permits and doesn't meet code)
Second floor: Kitchen, Full bathroom, Living room and then a stair up to a "third floor" Bedroom and full bathroom.

Question:
1- Residential Code? - What would you all consider this? its not a one family or two family or a townhouse.
2- Regarding the third floor occupancy..... Is it considered a third floor occupancy if the unit is accessed by an outside stair, and technically, the egress door is on the first floor of the unit but the second floor of the structure? (I believe it should be considered third floor occupancy my associate disagrees somewhat)
3- Change of use and now the entire structure shall be sprinklered as per AJ701

I have not seen the revised plans yet just want some opinions from others.

Thanks
 
e hilton said:
So they want to go from 4 units to 3? With one unit being on 2 floors?
Click to expand...
The zoning board will probably never give them 4 so they are applying for three, kind of doubtful they will even get that. It is zoned for single family.
They are allowed one accessory apartment if owner occupied by right with approval from Town Board of Appeals

Apartment unit #2, the entry is on the 2nd floor rear of the structure (accessed from exterior wood stair) with an interior stair up to a third floor bedroom.
 
No Soup for you said:
Yes on fire separation and sprinklers . I definitely agree

What would you all consider this? A three family?
Click to expand...

No, it's an apartment house (R2) and cannot go by the IRC. Must comply by the IBC and IEBC as a change in occupancy and probably level 2 alterations. The floors and stairways may need to be upgraded to meet the IBC required loads. Egress is another concern.
 
I think the Key for a Safe, Re-Use of this Building is a serious Fire Alarm System!

A thoughtful lamination of FR drywall over ext'g wet plaster along with FR doors with the legacy sawn lumber makes these buildings safer than new construction with I Joist (3/8 OSB Web HAA!)

Do you guys have a Building Standards Appeal Board to consider alternative methods?
This could be pretty interesting

IMHO Mike
 
Rick18071 said:
No, it's an apartment house (R2) and cannot go by the IRC. Must comply by the IBC and IEBC as a change in occupancy and probably level 2 alterations. The floors and stairways may need to be upgraded to meet the IBC required loads. Egress is another concern.
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Yes, I agree on the R2 and level 2, and they will apparently be using IEBC.

I will wait and see what drawings they submit. All I have seen so far is a floor plan that they are submitting for zoning approval. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row.

Thanks
 
I don't know about New York, but here in CA, one can have up to 2 ADU's completely in the shell of an existing home (one would be a junior ADU with size limitations), resulting in a 3 dwelling building, without the neeed for sprinklers (in some cases).
 
The change of use in the IEBC requires compliance with Chapter 9 which is a level 3 alteration.

1011.1.1 Compliance with Chapter 9.
The requirements of Chapter 9 shall be applicable throughout the building for the new occupancy classification based on the separation conditions set forth in Sections 1011.1.1.1 and 1011.1.1.2.
 
Robert said:
I don't know about New York, but here in CA, one can have up to 2 ADU's completely in the shell of an existing home (one would be a junior ADU with size limitations), resulting in a 3 dwelling building, without the need for sprinklers (in some cases).
Click to expand...
Boston has an accommodation for those existing, legacy, Triplexes as well
 
Rick18071 said:
Zoning would say if they need a parking lot or not.
1st floor apartment would need to be an accessible unit. The other 2 would only need to be a B type units if a elevator is put in.
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Under the Ext'g Bldg Code ?

I can see new construction, but even a level 2 Alteration raises Bldg Code/ Accesiable Unit requirement question?

Perhaps an Addition?
 
Genduct said:
Perhaps an Addition?
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Would have to meet the definition but you could have all three going on at one time, addition, level 1,2 or 3 alteration and a change of occupancy.

ADDITION. An extension or increase in floor area, number
of stories, or height of a building or structure

Genduct said:
I can see new construction, but even a level 2 Alteration raises Bldg Code/ Accesiable Unit requirement question?
Click to expand...


2015 IEBC Alterations level 2 sends you to this level 1 section
:
705.1.7 Accessible dwelling or sleeping units. Where
Group I-1, I-2, I-3, R-1, R-2 or R-4 dwelling or sleeping
units are being altered, the requirements of Section 1107
of the International Building Code for Accessible units
apply only to the quantity of the spaces being altered.

I was wrong, no type B units:

2015 IEBC Change of occupancy:
1012.8 Accessibility. Existing buildings that undergo a
change of group or occupancy classification shall comply
with this section.
Exception: Type B dwelling or sleeping units required by
Section 1107 of the International Building Code are not
required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities
undergoing a change of occupancy in conjunction with
less than a Level 3 alteration.

Will need only one accessible unit.
 
Rick18071 said:
Would have to meet the definition but you could have all three going on at one time, addition, level 1,2 or 3 alteration and a change of occupancy.

ADDITION. An extension or increase in floor area, number
of stories, or height of a building or structure




2015 IEBC Alterations level 2 sends you to this level 1 section
:
705.1.7 Accessible dwelling or sleeping units. Where
Group I-1, I-2, I-3, R-1, R-2 or R-4 dwelling or sleeping
units are being altered, the requirements of Section 1107
of the International Building Code for Accessible units
apply only to the quantity of the spaces being altered.

I was wrong, no type B units:

2015 IEBC Change of occupancy:
1012.8 Accessibility. Existing buildings that undergo a
change of group or occupancy classification shall comply
with this section.
Exception: Type B dwelling or sleeping units required by
Section 1107 of the International Building Code are not
required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities
undergoing a change of occupancy in conjunction with
less than a Level 3 alteration.

Will need only one accessible unit.
Click to expand...
"I was wrong, no type B units:"
Not WRONG, A Mistake is an ERROR that can't be corrected,
So just an Error, not wrong.
That point of view reduces the number of mistakes I need to admit to.

Thought you might like to adopt that approach
 
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