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Single family to a two-family, back to a single family, back to .....

M

MikeC

Silver Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
230
Location
NW Pennsylvania
Quick history of the house:

The house was built 70+ years ago as a two story single family dwelling. At one point, long ago, it was converted to a two-family dwelling with common utilities except for electrical which was changed to a 60 amp service for each apartment. The previous owner decided that he wanted it back to a single family dwelling, exposing the original doorway at the bottom of the stairs to the 2nd floor apartment, and running a jumper from one fuse box to the other, eliminating one electric meter. No other changes were made. All of this was done prior to the adoption of any building codes. The house currently has 2 working kitchens. The county tax office has never had this listed as a multi-family dwelling as far back as they keep records.

Now, the current owner wants to utilize it as an upper and lower apartment again. He is arguing that the structure was never changed back to a single family dwelling, just that the previous owner utilized both apartments. Is this a change of occupancy or not?
 
Due to the murky history I would help him accomplish whatever he wants and get it documented correctly from here on out.
 
So very typical in Pennsylvania. One day it's this, one day it's that and they always want to be able to play both sides of the coin no matter what. Is this property on public sewer? We always get them on the sewer bill and how many electrical meters. If it has been on the tax rolls as a SFR and currently is and the sewer authority has them listed as a single then a single it is. Want to make apartments? No problem, just make sure you meet the separation requirements and good luck with that for upper/lower apartments. But in PA where I am a BCO, he will probably just do whatever it is he wants anyway. Don't expect any help from L&I on this one either. I cannot concur with Yankee above. It is what it is, what it is. If it is on the tax rolls as a SFR he must do whatever he has to to comply with separation for a 2 family dwelling. If there is ever a fire (and there always is one with all the old houses in PA), you will never be able to live with yourself or defend yourself in court if you just tell him what he wants to hear.
 
We actually had this problem in our jurisdiction. The way we handled it was that they had no documented proof it was ever permitted as a multi-family. They got a lawyer involved and we got ours. Our lawyer asked for documentation from an authority having jurisdiction stating this was anything but a single family dwelling. When it couldn't be produced they had to become code compliant with current codes as to a two family dwelling. For us there is no such thing as "grandfathered" when it comes to a non-permitted construction they have to meet the code when the violation is discovered, not when the violation first occurred. If you have legal help I would recommend getting an opinion from them.
 
jar546 said:
So very typical in Pennsylvania. One day it's this, one day it's that and they always want to be able to play both sides of the coin no matter what. Is this property on public sewer? We always get them on the sewer bill and how many electrical meters. If it has been on the tax rolls as a SFR and currently is and the sewer authority has them listed as a single then a single it is. Want to make apartments? No problem, just make sure you meet the separation requirements and good luck with that for upper/lower apartments. But in PA where I am a BCO, he will probably just do whatever it is he wants anyway. Don't expect any help from L&I on this one either. I cannot concur with Yankee above. It is what it is, what it is. If it is on the tax rolls as a SFR he must do whatever he has to to comply with separation for a 2 family dwelling. If there is ever a fire (and there always is one with all the old houses in PA), you will never be able to live with yourself or defend yourself in court if you just tell him what he wants to hear.
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Whoa Jar546, there is nothing in my post that should have been read to forgo applicable codes for whatever type of use he would like. I said, "HELP HIM ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE WANTS", that means, if he wants a duplex then help him become compliant with the codes for a duplex. Get on his side and help him, don't sit back with your arms crossed and challenge him to to find a way.
 
Yankee said:
Whoa Jar546, there is nothing in my post that should have been read to forgo applicable codes for whatever type of use he would like. I said, "HELP HIM ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE WANTS", that means, if he wants a duplex then help him become compliant with the codes for a duplex. Get on his side and help him, don't sit back with your arms crossed and challenge him to to find a way.
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My apologies, I misinterpreted "..help him accomplish whatever he wants...." to mean let him do whatever he wants but document whatever it is when he is done.
 
It is a change of occupancy, that being said, I agree with Yankee. Get on the owner's side and help them accomplish what they want to do while bringing the structure into compliance.
 
Thanks for all of the opinions. I actually just hung up from L&I. The person there has the same opinion. Use of this structure as a two-family is a change of occupancy. I did do a bit more investigation prior to this call and found that the last time it was utilized as two dwellings was in January of 2000. Thanks for all of the help.

FWIW, I was involved prior to the new owner purchasing this house. I have a letter on file confirming that this is a single family dwelling. The lawyer involved claims that the new owner was presented this letter prior to completing the purchase. I guess he just thought that he would be able to convince me otherwise once he purchased it.
 
Been through that before with a large commercial garage that was converted into two residential apartments (upper & lower) with an attached garage in the front. The easy part is that it was all new construction within a large open building. I still had one heck of a time getting them to maintain the separation. They insisted on placing the force air in the ceiling of the lower apartment.

I can guess this one will be a bit easier. The new owner will not want to invest that much into this house. He is not what I would call a "stellar landlord". He will likely convert the 2nd floor kitchen into a master bedroom and use the house as a single family dwelling.
 
Single family to a two-family, back to a single family, back to .....

Commercial garage or for the 2 apartments? Sprinklers?

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Large commercial garage, changed to a residential structure. Front portion is now a very tall 2 car garage with 2 apartments in the rear. Owner originally intended on a 3rd apartment until he was informed of the fact that his intentions would change the building from a two-family dwelling with an attached garage to an apartment building and all of the associated work requirements. This is a residential zoned area and the garage was built on a portion of an old foundation for a previous commercial use garage, allowing the use to continue. He was informed up front of the fact that once he went to residential use, he would never be able to go back.

As for the sprinklers, this is PA. The residential sprinkler requirement is almost non-existent.
 
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