Sink location

[Sifu]

In a group E child-care facility, under the 2018 IBC and IPC is the hand-washing sink permitted to be installed outside of the toilet room? I can't find any code that addresses this other than IPC 405.3.2, which seems to require it (based on the definition for public).

405.3.2 Public lavatories. In employee and public toilet
rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same
room as the required water closet.

PUBLIC OR PUBLIC UTILIZATION. In the classification
of plumbing fixtures, “public” applies to fixtures in general
toilet rooms of schools, gymnasiums, hotels, airports, bus
and railroad stations, public buildings, bars, public comfort
stations, office buildings, stadiums, stores, restaurants and
other installations where a number of fixtures are installed so
that their utilization is similarly unrestricted.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

If you look in the definitions, a room doesn't not qualify as a toilet facility unless the water closet and lavatory are inside the room.

TOILET FACILITY. A room or space that contains not less than one water closet and one lavatory.

 

[steveray]

Yep....In the room...

 

[ADAguy]

Clarify a "group E" as to age of users?
If a Kinder there may be a licensing requirement to do so.

 

[Sifu]

Clarify a "group E" as to age of users?
If a Kinder there may be a licensing requirement to do so.

Group E by a combination of 308.5.1 & 305.2. (128 total occupants but less than 100 age 2 1/2) The state licensing says "in or near the toilet room".

 

[e hilton]

Consider adding a couple of sinks outside the rrstroom so the kiddies can wash up after finger painting.

 

[Sifu]

Consider adding a couple of sinks outside the rrstroom so the kiddies can wash up after finger painting.

That's the issue....they already have the sinks outside the restroom, just didn't put any in the restroom. The only code I see says they need to be in the restroom. If they have code saying otherwise they will for sure tell me.

 

[steveray]

Take the door off the restroom.....lol

 

[ADAguy]

young kids often require assistance and are not left alone.

 

[my250r11]

Most schools I have worked on or inspected here for the smaller kids have 2 sinks. 1 in the restroom, the other in counter top that most often is in the front of the classroom

 

[Sifu]

Take the door off the restroom.....lol

Actually I already figure that will be the response....to just provide an opening instead of the door. That would mitigate the need for the sink inside the room but I'm not sure how that plays out with IPC 405.3.4. That section requires the door and the exception wouldn't apply since they are all single user toilet rooms. It never ends.

 

[steveray]

Yeah...This one hits me funny, not fully sure why.... you can have the W/C in its own room or stall with all kinds of hardware to touch to get out, and the lav hardware, but god forbid you touch one more knob....

 

[ADAguy]

Yeah...This one hits me funny, not fully sure why.... you can have the W/C in its own room or stall with all kinds of hardware to touch to get out, and the lav hardware, but god forbid you touch one more knob....

"Touchless" products are already here, see Bobrick.

 

[steveray]

"Touchless" products are already here, see Bobrick.

I've yet to see a touchless bathroom "stall" door...

 

[ADAguy]

use your elbow

 

[Yikes]

If you look in the definitions, a room doesn't not qualify as a toilet facility unless the water closet and lavatory are inside the room.

TOILET FACILITY. A room or space that contains not less than one water closet and one lavatory.

So the question is, does "toilet facility space" = all of it one single room? Or can a facility space include more than one room?

IBC 202: "FACILITY. Any or all portions of buildings, structures, site improvements, elements and pedestrian or vehicular routes located on a site."
That sounds like it could also be more than one room.

CBC 202 "SPACE. A definable area, such as, room, toilet room, hall, assembly area, entrance, storage room, alcove, courtyard or lobby."

This definition of "space" can be so small ("alcove") that a single toilet inside a 3'x5' metal partition stall would meet the definition of "space", and yet we don't require individual lavatories inside every toilet stall.

I suspect that the intent of the definition of TOILET FACILITY is the minimum number of fixtures readily available to the user, and not whether a door is uniting or separating those fixtures.