Slab / Basement / Egress

[jar546]

Townhouse built into a hill.

Front at grade to garage which is the first level (basement?) with a garage vehicle door only and a rear mechanical room separated from the garage.

Rear grade 7' of unbalanced backfill, just about walk out from the 1st floor above garage/mechanical room.

Side grade is tapered down from the back to the front, ending at the garage "drive in" grade.

Main entrance door on 1st floor, front with landing and steps

Rear exit through sliders with a step down to the patio.

Does the rear "basement" mechanical room require egress?

Exit to the front out to grade is through the garage or going back upstairs to exit out the front or back.

Is this enough understandable detail?

 

[brudgers]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Does the rear "basement" mechanical room require egress?

Exit to the front out to grade is through the garage or going back upstairs to exit out the front or back.

Do the stairs meet egress requirements?

Assuming you feel compelled to classify the garage level as a basement, does the garage door meet emergency escape and rescue opening requirements?

Finally, do really see a dangerous condition and if so what is it?

 

[steveray]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

If it is built under the IRC, I don't believe so, only one means of egress required, with the exception of EERO in sleeping rooms.JMHO

 

[mueller]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Jeff-

Can someone leave the mechanical room and get upstairs or outside without passing thru the garage?

If not, and the mechanical room is large enough to be considered habitable space, I see a

Violation of general means of egress.

 

[jar546]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

To get from the rear mechanical room (which is completely below grade) to the outside you have two choices:

1) Go back upstairs. The stairs originate in that room.

2) Go into the garage and open the overhead door. There is no man door.

IRC 2006 applies

 

[RJJ]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

I have a number of these that existed before the I-codes. If the mechanical room is considered basement and no other use is being presented ie,home office,play room etc I would say no egress needed.

Sounds like a tuck under garage with mechanical room and access through basement stairs to occupied space.

 

[steveray]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

R311.4.1 Exit door required.

Not less than one exit door conforming to this section shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The required exit door shall provide for direct access from the habitable portions of the dwelling to the exterior without requiring travel through a garage. Access to habitable levels not having an exit in accordance with this section shall be by a ramp in accordance with Section R311.6 or a stairway in accordance with Section R311.5.

Seems fine to me especially if it is not habitable space.

HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Is it a story below grade by definition of the IRC? Then it is a basement and R310.1 applies. Doesn't have to be habitable or have a sleeping room to require an Emergency Escape and Rescue Opening it just has to be a basement

R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening.

Exception: Basements used only to house mechanical equipment and not exceeding total floor area of 200 square feet (18.58 m2).

 

[steveray]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Good call mt!

I am still on '03 I-codes and forgot that they put that in '06.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Is it a story below grade by definition of the IRC? Then it is a basement and R310.1 applies. Doesn't have to be habitable or have a sleeping room to require an Emergency Escape and Rescue Opening it just has to be a basementR310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening.

Exception: Basements used only to house mechanical equipment and not exceeding total floor area of 200 square feet (18.58 m2).

Why wouldn't a garage door meet EERC requirements?

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Is it a story below grade by definition of the IRC? Then it is a basement and R310.1 applies. Doesn't have to be habitable or have a sleeping room to require an Emergency Escape and Rescue Opening it just has to be a basementR310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening.

Exception: Basements used only to house mechanical equipment and not exceeding total floor area of 200 square feet (18.58 m2).

Why wouldn't a garage door meet EERC requirements?

If you can't exit through the garage, why would an EERO be allowed to open to a garage? I agree with mt.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

If you can't exit through the garage, why would an EERO be allowed to open to a garage? I agree with mt.

You can't egress through a window either, that's why it's an emergency escape and rescue opening not a means of egress component.

The idea comes from early life safety codes: two means of escape.

It's a lower standard than for a means of egress.

Which is fortunate.

Landings on both sides of a second floor window might be problematic.

 

[kilitact]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

jar546: whats the sq ft of this mechanical rm??

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

If you can't exit through the garage, why would an EERO be allowed to open to a garage? I agree with mt.

You can't egress through a window either, that's why it's an emergency escape and rescue opening not a means of egress component.

The idea comes from early life safety codes: two means of escape.

It's a lower standard than for a means of egress.

Which is fortunate.

Landings on both sides of a second floor window might be problematic.

R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening. Such opening shall open directly into a public street, public alley, yard or court. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency egress and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping room, but shall not be required in adjoining areas of the basement. Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided they shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) above the floor. Where a door opening having a threshold below the adjacent ground elevation serves as an emergency escape and rescue opening and is provided with a bulkhead enclosure, the bulkhead enclosure shall comply with Section R310.3. The net clear opening dimensions required by this section shall be obtained by the normal operation of the emergency escape and rescue opening from the inside. Emergency escape and rescue openings with a finished sill height below the adjacent ground elevation shall be provided with a window well in accordance with Section R310.2. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

Exception: Basements used only to house mechanical equipment and not exceeding total floor area of 200 square feet (18.58 m2).

The code section even repeats it twice for clarity. EERO opens to the outside. Or is your garage a public way?

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

I was only refering to the requirement that all stories below grade "basements" are required 1 EERO regardless of what the basement is being used for.

Now in my understanding of this specific design the whole basement minus the mechanical room is the garage. That said I believe a garage door may meet that requirement depending on if it can meet the following.

R310.1.4 Operational constraints.

Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge.

Is it a roll up door, does it have an opener that may not work in the event of a power failure? Special knowledge may then be required to disconnect the operator to open the door. Do they swing out which may be blocked by another vehicle or snow.

Just some things to think about without giving a blanket ok to the garage door being the EERO for the basement

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

OK, in reading the posts again, I will ask some questions:

1. IF the entire basement IS the garage with a mechanical room in the garage, are the openings between the garage and the house in accordance with R309.1?

2. IF the entire basement IS the garage with a mechanical room in the garage, is the garage properly separated from the rest of the house in accordance with R309.2?

3. Insulated in accordance with Chapter 11 including doors?

If yes to these, and maybe other issues I didn't think of, I would say no EERO is required and hope they don't want to alter the garage into living space later on.

We have this amendment which would cover this situation:

20. Add a new Section R309.7, which shall read as follows:

R309.7 Garage exit. Not less than 1 exit conforming to Section R311 shall be provided from any attached or detached garage.

Plus you will get a landing and exterior lighting also...

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

The first question to answer is it a basement :?: If it is then no EERO is required

STORY ABOVE GRADE. Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade, except that a basement shall be considered as a story above grade where the finished surface of the floor above the basement is:

1. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane. No

2. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above the finished ground level for more than 50 percent of the total building perimeter. Maybe

3. More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point. Maybe

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

The first question to answer is it a basement :?: If it is then no EERO is requiredSTORY ABOVE GRADE. Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade, except that a basement shall be considered as a story above grade where the finished surface of the floor above the basement is:

1. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane. No

2. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above the finished ground level for more than 50 percent of the total building perimeter. Maybe

3. More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point. Maybe

The first sentence is incorrect. I hope you meant to say that if it is NOT a basement then an EERO is not required. If that is what you meant I agree. And I believe #2 above will be the deciding factor. If it is a "story above grade", then no EERO is required in this scenario.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Thanks TJ I did mean to say NOT a basement

 

[jar546]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

Don't know the square footage yet. He just dropped of prints and I left them at the office. I mentioned to him that he may or may not have to put in an egress door/window of some sort and I will check into it. Have not done plan review yet.

 

[JBI]

Re: Slab / Basement / Egress

This is like Deja-Vu all over again. Maybe it's a crawl space! :lol:

If I'm remebering right, we had a similar discussion a while back with the final answer being that it is addressed differently from State to State and AHJ to AHJ.

RCNYS does have some better language on the subject, but under the IRC it is a bit murky.

IMHO, based on IRC you do NOT need any additional 'exiting' for the Mechanical room as described. Nobody is sleeping in there. Anyone who is in there will likely be fully cognizant of their surroundings.

EEROs are only required in 'sleeping spaces' under the Res Code, even NYS dropped its' requirement for EEROs in 'all habitable spaces' in our last code cycle and as far as I know we were the last to do so.