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slab on grade repairs

BSSTG

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
729
Location
Seadrift, Tx.
Greetings,

In our neck of the woods we see a lot of repairs being done to household foundations. So I went to look at one today and the guys ask me if it's ok. I said no. You have black steel metal shims under the footings. They will rust. So the owner of the company calls and says they are not a problem blabla and that their engineer is ok with it. Soooo, give me a letter from the engineer.

Anyway, I have seen this before and I don't get it. Now I'm not an engineer but common sense tells me that black steel buried in dirt will rust and give way over time. What say you? Am I being unreasonable?

BS
 
I would make the same call.

In conflict with this, we see the base of lally columns in basements buried in concrete on a regular basis. Maybe it is unreasonable. That just went full circle. At any rate I would let the engineer sign off.
 
Good call BSSTG. More than 24" below the surface and aerobic bacteria are unable to cause much damage, but oxidation will continue.

First time I saw E-Z-Form being used for pads under columns the mason didn't read the directions ('ben doing concrete for 40 years'), so he cut the re-bar long enough to protrude out on all four sides.

D'OH! There are pictures ON the product... READ! LOOK! Learn?

Keystone, concrete filled posts and adjustables are usually factory primed.
 
Concrete can inhibit corrosion. This is the case with reinforcing steel.

What is the code provision you are attempting to enforce? In the IBC slabs on grade are excluded from ACI 318.
 
The corrosion threat is quite real even deep as 10ft if you have what is called "low resistivity" soils. The "black" steel refit system has been used for over 30 years all around the SF bay area, quite a few of the early installations had severe corrosion and partial support failures. There are tests for soils that will give you info to determine if there is high enough corrosion potential to warrant coatings on the steel or other corrosion protection methods. Highly recommended to get the testing done before rejecting the work.
 
If we are talking about slab on grade and not footings, with rare exemptions for a residential building, this is not a structural concern.

If there is no code provision that you can cite, with a straight face, there is no basis to require anything be done.

Building codes cannot address all concerns. Accept it and move on.
 
Do you require a permit for foundation repair??

Thought foundation repair was kind of unregulated in Tx
 
cda said:
Do you require a permit for foundation repair??Thought foundation repair was kind of unregulated in Tx
We don't require a permit for most foundation repairs but a surprising number of people get one anyway. Then they complain when they are told to install smoke and co detectors.
 
ICE said:
We don't require a permit for most foundation repairs but a surprising number of people get one anyway. Then they complain when they are told to install smoke and co detectors.
In the foundation ???
 
cda said:
Do you require a permit for foundation repair??Thought foundation repair was kind of unregulated in Tx
Interesting question. The state does not regulate foundation repair yet. Rumour is that some here want the state to regulate roofers and slab repair companies as there is a lot of fraud with both. I'm not into regulating businesses per se but there are a lot of misfits ripping folks off. We will see. Our legislature is in session now. I doubt it will happen this session though as it will cost money to regulate.

The problem is that foundation repairs are always engineered systems supposedly. I've already been in trouble for giving the ok for a foundation that was not up to par some years back even though it was engineered. Pasadena Tx was sued a few years ago for a call made on a foundation by a city inspector and the city lost. As a result, they don't require permits either anymore or so I've been told. I can understand why.

After I made this post yesterday, I had a meeting with the city manager and he concurred, we will no longer require permits here either. Too much liability for the city.

BS
 
You mean the free $ 500 engineering report thrown in??

I don't think many foundation repairs are engineered!

Except the Nolab Ryan ones of course
 
BS

Failing foundations in Texas are the most numerous in the U.S. overall, approximately 20% of all reported foundation failures country wide. The main issue with failures is expansive clay soils and foundations that are not properly designed for the conditions. In the interest of consumer protection, is the issue on the Texas legislature radar? About 40 years ago, CA had significant numbers of foundation failures due to clay soils, the Building Officials as a group statewide (CALBO) came together to address the issue and successfully got legislation enacted to require geotechnical reports and proper foundation designs. After a few years of effort, some additional code provisions were put in the UBC (old ICBO code)
 
Kind of down there with foundations at the bottom and buried

Luckily in a way they only meet every two years for about seven months, so they cannot do to much harm

They have allot more interesting stuff to discuss

5. The one where everybody gets all the guns. HB 195: Relating to the carrying of handguns; providing for the open carrying of handguns; and removing the requirement that a person who may lawfully possess handguns obtain a Concealed Handgun License in order to carry a handgun lawfully in the state of Texas.

There are lots of Open Carry bills that have been filed, but the one by Rep. John Strickland is a real honey of a creation. See, Strickland not only wants to allow people to openly carry pistols and the other smaller firearms, he wants to make it so that all the people can carry all the guns all the time. HB 195 even proposes getting rid of concealed handgun licenses entirely. It's practically impossible to see how this one could, you know, backfire. Despite what you'd expect, this being shoot-em'-up Texas and all, the Lone Star State has had a 140-year ban on openly carrying firearms. If this or any of the other bills filed actually get through the Lege, Texas will become the largest state to allow this type of pistol packing.

4. The one that's trying to quash gay marriage just in case it becomes legal in Texas. HB 623: Relating to the funding, issuing, and litigation of certain marriage licenses.

It's hard to believe it, but as of right now, gay marriage has been recognized in 36 states that contain roughly 70 percent of the country's population. It's quite possible that Texas may become one of the next states to be legally on board with same-sex marriage judging from the response of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals last Friday. But of course, Texas lawmakers can't just go quietly and get along on this issue.

Last week Rep. Cecil Bell filed HB 623, a bill that will, among other things, prohibit the use of taxpayer funds for the licensing and support of same-sex marriage. It will also bar any government employee who recognizes gay marriage from being paid. Gay marriage is such a hot-button issue right now, this is only one of a slew of bills filed touching on the subject. However, considering where things stand and the fact that Texas may well be on the brink of becoming the next state to recognize same-sex marriages, the timing of and calculation behind this bill make it particularly exasperating.

3. The one where Texas wants to build its own Fort Knox. HB 483: Relating to the establishment and administration of a state bullion depository; authorizing fees.

Despite the fact that this idea didn't gain any legislative traction during the 2013 session, Rep. Giovanni Capriglione is once again hoping to create the Texas Bullion Depository. Basically this bill would allow Texas to set up its very own Fort Knox. Outside of Texas once again trying to wing it as its very own independent country -- and keep in mind that whole secession thing went so well for us last time -- there doesn't seem to be any actual reason to create such a thing, unless scientists have figured out a way to allow people to swim through piles of gold just like Scrooge McDuck. But despite the fact that this bill doesn't have much of a point, Capriglione is heading once more into the breach. Fingers crossed that it's the last time.

2. The one that's trying to make the cowboy hat the official hat of Texas. HCR 35: Designating the cowboy hat as the official State Hat of Texas

This one, cooked up by Rep. Marsha Farney, is pretty self-explanatory, but the mind-boggling part is that lawmakers are going to spend actual time, actual taxpayer dollars and actual effort on deciding once and for all that the cowboy hat is hands-down the quintessential hat of Texas. Because somehow that is a thing that needs to be conclusively decided and put down for the record so that everyone for time immemorial will know we are all about the cowboy hat versus, let's say, the ski cap.

1.The one that's trying to legalize discrimination. SJR 10: Proposing a constitutional amendment relating to an individual's or religious organization's freedom of religion.

The summary sounds innocuous enough, but state Sen. Donna Campbell's second attempt to legalize gay discrimination is anything but harmless. If passed, the law will allow Texas business owners to discriminate against LGBT customers if they feel that serving them would violate their religious beliefs. Aside from the tiny fact that it's arguable that any religion that would sanction, let alone command, such behavior must be pretty horrid, this isn't even the first time Campbell has tried this shtick. She filed a nearly identical bill back in 2013 and nothing came of it, but despite the fact that there could be all kinds of problems triggered by such broad legislation, she's going for it again.
 
JBI - Yes the lally columns and base are coated but the adjustable threads are not.

CDA - Eliminating concealed carry license, I'm for eliminating it. Now lets see if they have the political will or if its fluff.
 
BSSTG said:
You have black steel metal shims under the footings. They will rust. BS
Shims under the footings because of a newly made void where it was solid before? What could be used, concrete block, sand, gravel or shotcrete or?
 
CDA - Going to have a beer now...

Pcinspector - pressure grouting, under pinning w concrete overpour, helical piles, steel piers, etc.... Whatever the method it should be stipulated by DP.
 
We have open carry in our state constitution. CCW required within city limits.

It's hard to believe it, but as of right now, gay marriage has been recognized in 36 states that contain roughly 70 percent of the country's population
That is totally misleading. Most of the voters of the states enacted laws supporting traditional marriage between a man and woman. The courts (judges) are the ones who mandated a re-defined marriage between most of those states to "recognize" gay marriages.
 
The court is not in place to make new law, it's in place to interpret the law. I think that was taught in civic"s class, oh wait I think that class was eliminated, do to lack of school funding.

Were all just sheep now!
 
Wow Guys, too many cars racing into that corner.

Wasn't the OP about foundation repairs?

Maybe "Whine & cheese" is the best place to argue John Adam's "tyranny of the majority".

Anybody got something for BSSTG to answer the problem stated?
 
He already provided the answer

After I made this post yesterday, I had a meeting with the city manager and he concurred, we will no longer require permits here either. Too much liability for the city.BS
 
More the Whiskey and chocolate crowd myself......my cars got a flat....after paying for my neighbors insurance....

riding my bike to work and trying to solar up with the rest of ya! :(

pc1
 
Large parts of Texas have expansive clay soils. I remember some large homebuilders were post-tensioning the slabs 30 or 40 years ago to deal with this. Repairs to these should be engineered.

Commercial buildings often had belled piers and grade beams, with intentional voids below the grade beams so the soil could expand without raising the grade beam.

We have similar problems in parts of central Virginia. If the footings are a couple feet deeper than usual they will in a region of fairly constant moisture. I think that depth is far greater in Texas, maybe 10 or 20 feet.

The OP sounds interesting. Voids below footings could be the result of dry soil shrinking. If the soil gets wet enough it will expand and fill the void. If there's a shim in there it could jack the footing up, especially if the shim gets wet enough to start rusting, which causes further expansion.
 
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