• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Slopes and frontage increases

E

Eggbert

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
2
Location
San Diego
I have a situation I had not run into before. I am working on a design for a military installation, the site is dedicated to this single property facility.

1. IBC 506.2 does not address whether the "public way" needs to be flat. In my case the bldg is surrounded by a ~20' wide utility road surrounding the building, and on the outside of this is a gravel embankment which is on average 20' wide, and has a 1 in 5 slope. (I.e. 1' rise every 5' on one side, and 1' drop every 5' on the other side of the bldg, thus it is not flat and could be difficult to negotiate for some people.) Outside of this is the parking lot with fire road. We have the embankment because the bldg site is sloped.

=> Can we take full credit for a 30' frontage increase? We essentially have 100'+ all around the bldg, the catch is that sloped gravel embankment.

2. If the answer to the above is "no" because the embankment is not a public way , then we would like to apply IBC 506.2.2 for "open space". However the fire road can be 60' away in some places. Does that count as "accessible" to the fire department? What on average IS the maximum distance a fire road can be located from a bldg and still be considered accessible?

Thank you in advance for any insight.
 
The 30 foot clearance requirement as I understand it is relative to property line or the "imaginary" property line halfway between two buildings.

The issue is relative to other buildings that could impact the subject building in case the OTHER building caught fire.

Slope would not have any issue with this then.

The 20 foot frontage issue is relative to the firefighter equipment access to fight the fire.

Distance to public way is not the issue, ACCESS to the public way is the issue.

But note that the code references "public way or area of safety"

So:

Yes, take the 30 foot frontage increase.

No problem with the slope.
 
I believe the OP's question was regarding IBC Section 506.2 under Area Modifications which requires a minimum of 20'-0" clear yard to get any area increase and requires 30'-0" to get the maximum allowable area increase.... more or less. That said I believe you got a correct answer. Slope or no slope if the yard is clear take the increase. Of course you may be impacting/limiting future development adjacent to this building in doing so. FWI I would measure the 30'-0" in a horizontal plane extending from the building wall above grade.

Hope that helps,

ZIG
 
Thank you all very much for the good insight, that helps. What are your thoughts regarding:

"What on average IS the maximum distance a fire road can be located from a bldg and still be considered accessible?"

20'? 50'? 1000'? Aside from the obvious answer of "it depends on what the local fire department says is ok" I am hoping for a rule-of-thumb to use.
 
Fire department access roads are supposed to be anywhere from 15 to 30 feet from the face of the exterior wall.....if an aerial apparatus is required.....

D105.3 Proximity to building. At least one of the required

access routes meeting this condition shall be located within a

minimum of 15 feet (4572 mm) and a maximum of 30 feet

(9144 mm) from the building, and shall be positioned parallel

to one entire side of the building.
 
Aerial apparatus is slightly different than the ground level fire apparatus access road. Typically fire apparatus access roads are required within 150' of all portions of a structure. Contact your local AHJ for their specific application. In this jurisdiction we extend that to be interpreted as within 150' as a hose can be drug around the building, because often times their are unforeseen obstructions such as fences, bulkheads, or topographical features where a road within 150' would prevent a hose from reaching a portion of the structure and they don't typically drag hoses over the top of structures to reach the non access side. The IFC Section 503.1.1 addresses this issue. Bob gave you the Appendix D application as it applies to buildings exceeding 30' above the level of department vehicle access where overhead obstructions and such should be maintained clear. The appendix is not automatically adopted so again check with your AHJ.

Good luck!

ZIG

On a personal note I am getting an opportunity to visit the home of the National Fire Academy next week in Emmetsburg, MD and hope to see some of the sprinkler testing facility. If anyone has any insight about the area please shoo me a message. Things to do etc..
 
I was there at the school on the "first" 9/11

TO DO LIST:

1. Take the train in to DC and see the sites

2. Enjoy DC Penn Station / Check out the restaurants in the station

3. Take a sea taxi around Baltimore harbor

4. Go to Smithsonian

6. Go to Library of Congress

7. See if the Ravens are practicing

8. See the Declaration of Independence and Constitution

9. "PASS A GOOD TIME" and "LAISSEZ LE BON TEMPS ROULLEZ!"
 
If you are working on Military buildings UFC 3-600-01 applies:

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_600_01.pdf

2-10 FIRE DEPARTMENT (EMERGENCY) VEHICLE ACCESS.

2-10.1 All-Weather Ground Access.

All buildings greater than 5,000 sq ft (465 m), or more than two stories in height must have at least one means of all-weather ground access to allow emergency vehicles unimpeded access to the building. All-weather ground access must be paved, start from the road, and terminate no farther than 33 ft (10 m) from the building.

The UFC supercedes the other codes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top