smoke detection zone question

[TheCommish]

NFPA 72, 2010 edition

A multi floor building, that consists of 2 separate lower levels, one to be a future tenant space the other a basement area on 2 separate levels, the so called first floor that is at 2 different levels, a second floor area above one of the first floor areas and an attic above the other first floor area, currently designed to be occupied by 3 different tenants one the so called first floor, each with separate entrances and distinct areas separated from each other by walls. Then the potential for 2 more tenant areas, one the lower level and one on the second floor.

No floor area exceed 22000 square feet, the building is fully sprinklered with one zone, NFPA 13, 2007 edition.

Can anyone cite a requirement that the smoke detection in each tenant area be a separate zone?

Curtis Meskus

Asst. Chief

Charlton Fire Department

508-248-2282

Curtis.meskus@townofcharlton.net

Serving with Integrity, Honesty and Compassion

Fires are fast - home sprinklers are faster - don't delay inquire about one today - see Residential Fire Sprinkler Protection Systems Info from Home Fire Sprinkler Coalition

 

[cda]

I think there is a Square footage rule, do not have the book

Will look tomorrow

2009 IFC

Maybe the fire code

907.7.3 Zones. Each floor shall be zoned separately and a zone shall not exceed 22,500 square feet (2090 m2). The length of any zone shall not exceed 300 feet (91 440 mm) in any direction.

Exception: Automatic sprinkler system zones shall not exceed the area permitted by NFPA 13.

Your scenario has a sprinkler system

 

[Coug Dad]

Why is there smoke detection in addition to the automatic sprinklers?

 

[rnapier]

See NFPA 72 article 10.16. Each floor and fire or smoke barriers require a different zone.

 

[rnapier]

That was 2010 NFPA 72

 

[TheCommish]

Don't know why they designed the building with both, belt and suspenders approach? lack of the cost control implications.

2 of the units are occupied and I asked the zoning question at that time, got the standard answer that is what was on the plan (that I did not review) analog system so it is off to the hunt for the FD to find the activated detector now.

I plan on use this new tenant to split the zones up properly for the building, just looking for a citation to use

 

[peach]

I don't think you'll find a smoke detector requirement in a fully sprinklered building.

 

[Inspector Gift]

So, do we know for certain the occupancy classification of the current or "future tenants"? What if it were for a clinic that conducted sleep studies? Is the building is to be occupied by H, I or R occupancies?

 

[cda]

Don't know why they designed the building with both, belt and suspenders approach? lack of the cost control implications. 2 of the units are occupied and I asked the zoning question at that time, got the standard answer that is what was on the plan (that I did not review) analog system so it is off to the hunt for the FD to find the activated detector now.

I plan on use this new tenant to split the zones up properly for the building, just looking for a citation to use

sorry did not get a chance to look at 72, but IFC appears to say that what is there is legal

you can always ask

 

[FM William Burns]

Sorry, I'm confused........are there smokes in the existing spaces? Because if there are not, one would be hard pressed to require them unless it is specifically occupancy/use driven for that fire area. The zoning/annunciation section 10.16 of NFPA 72 does not apply unless specifically driven by "other" laws, codes or standards and to my recollection the project is <52,000 s.f. so it can be protected by a single riser/zone. No if the building houses a occupancy/use tjhat would require automatic detection, a case for zoning/annunciation could be made.

I tried for years to change the sprinkler water flow alarm parameters in 13 for the low rise/strip mall scenario to no avail.

 

[TheCommish]

yes smokes in existing spaces, they appear to be the owners/designer choice to install.

I think this is poor practice and am trying to justify the need to identify the space the smoke is activated in, the building is a mixed bag of spaces and levels, so when the FD arrive it would be good not to have to look allover the building for the activated detector

 

[cda]

What kind of fire alarm panel

Old zoned system

Or

Addressable ???

 

[TheCommish]

new zone system, expandable number of zones

 

[cda]

Ok we require a floor plan no matter if zoned or addressable showing the initiating device and either the zone it is on of

Or the address of the device

So for zoned, yes you have a few more devices to look at, but it gives you an area to look in and not the entire building

 

[FM William Burns]

Zone Placard......Example

Zone 1 - Suite A - NE 2nd Fllor Smoke/Heat/Pull/

Zone 2 - Suite A - NE 2nd Floor Trouble

Zone 3 - Suite Z - Basement W Smoke................etc.

 

[TheCommish]

Zone Placard......Example Zone 1 - Suite A - NE 2nd Fllor Smoke/Heat/Pull/

Zone 2 - Suite A - NE 2nd Floor Trouble

Zone 3 - Suite Z - Basement W Smoke................etc.

that would be good the problem the zone now are the whole basement which is accessible form 2 different location but unable to get all the way through, likewise the first floor and upper level

 

[FM William Burns]

new zone system, expandable number of zones

OK

that would be good the problem the zone now are the whole basement which is accessible form 2 different location but unable to get all the way through, likewise the first floor and upper level Since the new system has expandable zones, suggest that the facility owner have their alarm service provider re-program the FACP and expand the zones into areas based on geographic detector placement and floor locations like the example provided previously. Then suggest that the alarm service provider develop a placard to place at the FACP to indicated which zone goes where.

This could be done with a simple service call by the ASP....just did one (re-acceptance test) the other day.