Smokes wired to nurse call

[fireguy]

We started an annual inspection in an Adult Living Facility today. The building was built in 1998, and I do not know what codes were in effect at that time. The smoke detectors in the individual apartments do not report to the FACP, but the nurses call system. The nurses call system sounds calls the staff pagers. When the nurse call is activated by the resident, a signal is sent to the staff pager, showing the room number. When the smoke trips, the signal sent to the nurse call pager does not show a room number. Staff then goes to the nurse call board, where the room number is displayed, or walks the hall until they see a red indicator light outside the fire apartment. A signal does not get sent to the FACP. Which mean no horn/strobes are activated, neither the FD nor Dispatch is called. When a detector activates, it does turn on an indicator light outside the apartment. When the heat trips the sprinkler, the the water flow does send an alarm to dispatch and the horn/strobes. We hope the resident is still alive at that time. The smokes in the public areas do send a signal to the FACP and the rest of system works as it should. The apartment smoke does make a noise in the apartment andonly the apartement. When the FACP receives an input signal, it does send a signal to the apartment smoke and the smoke does make a noise.

In 1995, my alarm tech wired an ALF. A requirement was that the FACP send a signal to the nurse call. The nurse call shows the room number, but the FACP also trips the strobe/horns, and calls dispatch. Todays job did not send a signal to the FACP that tripped the strobe/horns or called dispatched.

Tomorrow we will call the FM and get his input on this system. I will have my people turn off the FACP breaker and trip an apartment smoke to see if there is battery back-up or not. In there is battery back-up, that will be an indication the FACP supplies power to the apartment smokes. If the smokes do not operate, it will be an indication that the 24 Volt power is supplied by something other than the FACP.

Has anyone seen a system like the one we found today? Any code references?

 

[cda]

yes

nfpa 101 set up

and per i codes depending on what the occupancy type is "I-1" and maybe R something

I-1 in the 03 IFC only requires system smokes in the corridor and common areas tied into the system and single station smokes in the sleeping area 907.2.10.1.3, and that does not even require the nurse call

do you know if this has been an assisted living place since it was built????????

you do not want the old inspectors doing wheel chair races because someone burnt popcorn in thier room

 

[permitguy]

Dwelling units and sleeping units are only required to have single- or multiple-station smoke alarms. These are not tied into the building's fire alarm system. The nurse call activation is a bonus from and IFC standpoint.

Verify the occupancy classification and see Section 907 of the '09 IFC.

 

[cda]

from 101

for chapter 32 large facilities

Chapter 32 New Residential Board and Care Occupancies

32.3.3.4.6* Emergency Forces Notification. Emergency forces notification shall meet the following requirements:

(1)Fire department notification shall be accomplished in accordance with 9.6.4.

(2)Smoke detection devices or smoke detection systems shall be permitted to initiate a positive alarm sequence in accordance with 9.6.3.4 for not more than 120 seconds.

32.3.3.4.7 Smoke Alarms. Approved smoke alarms shall be installed in accordance with 9.6.2.10 inside every sleeping room, outside every sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms, and on all levels within a resident unit.

32.3.3.4.8 Smoke Detection Systems.

32.3.3.4.8.1 Corridors and spaces open to the corridors, other than those meeting the requirement of 32.3.3.4.8.3, shall be provided with smoke detectors that comply with NFPA 72 , National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code, and are arranged to initiate an alarm that is audible in all sleeping areas.

32.3.3.4.8.2 Reserved.

32.3.3.4.8.3 Smoke detection systems shall not be required in unenclosed corridors, passageways, balconies, colonnades, or other arrangements with one or more sides along the long dimension fully or extensively open to the exterior at all times.

9.6.2.10 Smoke Alarms.

9.6.2.10.1 General.

9.6.2.10.1.1 Where required by another section of this Code, single-station and multiple-station smoke alarms shall be in accordance with NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code, unless otherwise provided in 9.6.2.10.1.2, 9.6.2.10.1.3, or 9.6.2.10.1.4.

9.6.2.10.1.2 The installation of smoke alarms in sleeping rooms shall be required where required by Chapters 11 through 43.

9.6.2.10.1.3* The interconnection of smoke alarms shall apply only to new construction as provided in 9.6.2.10.3.

9.6.2.10.1.4 System smoke detectors in accordance with NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code, and arranged to function in the same manner as single-station or multiple-station smoke alarms shall be permitted in lieu of smoke alarms.

9.6.2.10.2 Smoke alarms, other than existing battery-operated smoke alarms as permitted by other sections of this Code, shall be powered in accordance with the requirements of NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code.

9.6.2.10.3* In new construction, where two or more smoke alarms are required within a dwelling unit, suite of rooms, or similar area, they shall be arranged so that operation of any smoke alarm shall cause the alarm in all smoke alarms within the dwelling unit, suite of rooms, or similar area to sound, unless otherwise permitted by the following:

(1)

The requirement of 9.6.2.10.3 shall not apply where permitted by another section of this Code.

(2)

The requirement of 9.6.2.10.3 shall not apply to configurations that provide equivalent distribution of the alarm signal.

9.6.2.10.4 The alarms shall sound only within an individual dwelling unit, suite of rooms, or similar area and shall not actuate the building fire alarm system, unless otherwise permitted by the authority having jurisdiction. Remote annunciation shall be permitted.

9.6.2.11 Where required by Chapters 11 through 43, an automatic fire detection system shall be provided in hazardous areas for initiation of the signaling system.

 

[Coug Dad]

Is the building sprinklered? I agree with others if it is. If it is not sprinklered, I would have to look to see if system smokes are required.

 

[TJacobs]

I agree with cda. Sounds like a 101 setup.

 

[fireguy]

The building is sprinklered, by a wet and by a dry system. Which is a whole 'nother story. The overhang is more than 48 ", so there are lots of dry sidewalls on the exterior. There were no drains, so someone added a drain to each dry exterior head. We were too expensive, I was going to add drip drums on the outside of the building. The low bidder added a single ball valve, in the wall, which meant removing the insulation. To drain the system, you open the wooden acess panel, connect a short hose and drain the condensation. But, no one drains the condensation on a regular basis. The dry system is not pitched properly, and has a history of frozen pipes. They have always chosen the cheapest company possible. But the new owner is due in today and maybe things will change. My guys have already found obstructed pipe, and a couple of hte dry drains, do not drain, so we are over the estimate now. The new owner will be onsite today. He will not be happy, but he is familar wiht the former owners. The FM is expected to be onsite also, should be interesting.

Thank you for the replies, Iwll print this out and e-mail it to the State FM. I will also do some reading today.

 

[cda]

you might want to "Redaction" about the old inspectors than