so what do you do with a flea market?

[BSSTG]

Greetings all,

Well I caught wind of a local dude wanting to start up a flea market awhile back. The dude making the inquiry is a total fruitcake so I'm doubtfull if it will go anywhere. I hope not. Anyway, we have no zoning but do require peddlers to be bonded and licensed. Beyond that I'm at a loss as how do deal with it. So how should this be treated with respect to our adopted 09 IBC and IFC codes? I can handle the electrical end of it ok should that arise. Another question would be how to handle restroom facilities without any local requirements on the books? I can sure use some input with this!

I know these things can be problematic as where I used to work we had one grow into a behemouth covering several acres. I have heard since it was shut down by the fire marshall's office. All kinds of issues with electrical and fire and health codes including a significant rat population.

I just wish I could go 1 week at work without any oddball scenarios coming up. Oh well.

thanks to all and have a great weekend!

Byron

 

[That Inspector Guy]

You have adopted the IBC and the IFC- there's 3/4ths of your battle already waged and won by you. What about the IEBC? What is the current or past use of the building? Will there be a change of use (chapter 9 of the IEBC) if so will his renovations fall under level I, II or III alterations??? If and when he ever calls to find out what to submit or he tries to submit something, follow the IBC/IEBC and IFC. Engineered plans for an "M" type occupancy including ADA compliant restrooms, paths of ingress and egress, parking spaces, etc. Plans shall also identify paths of emergency egress compliant with the fire code and NFPA 101. There are about a half-dozen of these types of flea markets/farmers market places within a 25 mile radius of where I sit right now. There used to be a dozen within 15 years ago but a bunch of them have all burned (gloriously and efficiently may I add) to the ground. The Fire Marshals watch these places like hawks.

 

[BSSTG]

I'm sensing that this is to be on some vacant property and no existing bldg use will occur. I'm not sure what this guy has in mind just yet as he is coming to my office this p.m. Will post up later with more info. Like I say, he's a total goofball with resourses. He may be off on another tangent too. We've taken him to court on code enforcement issues in the past so it will be interesting.

Byron

 

[mtlogcabin]

It is retail so handle the restroom facilities based on the gross sales area and travel distance limits similar to a mall.

With the cooperation of the FM require all canopies shall meet fire retardant requirements

All site constructed facilities shall meet building codes

Have a site plan where there is ample separation between groups of canopies or structures limiting them in sq ft to say 1,000 to 1,500 sq ft

 

[gbhammer]

My guess is that there is no building or much of one and this is going to be an outdoor market with dozens maybe in time hundreds of poorly built "TEMPORARY" structures.

2009 IBC 108. Temporary structures.

You can/must limit them to 180 days or less (you can set your own times- 1day, 2days, .... 180 days but not more)

If you want to be tough make them get a new permit every day, that way you can inspect the place every day.

If at plan review for the "TEMPORARY" structures they impress you then maybe you can ease up on the length of the permits.

You have a lot of leway here. They still have to meet all the provisions of the code.

As far as bathrooms are concerned you can look at the whole area as a big M occupancy with no roof. Do your load calcs that way. If they use porta-pottys Make them provide you with documentation - a receipt or contract for services that extends through the time of the permit.

 

[gbhammer]

Ah, I had a call and come back to find anwers given.

 

[brudgers]

The way you handle it is by enforcing the requirements on your books. If there's nothing on your books, then you sit down, fold your hands in your lap, and mind your own business.

 

[gbhammer]

The way you handle it is by enforcing the requirements on your books. If there's nothing on your books, then you sit down, fold your hands in your lap, and mind your own business.

He has already indicated that he has adopted the 09 IBC and IFC; both of those books require him to enforce something the minute a structure goes up. Maybe the Flee market will be off of or out of tailgates and he can ignore it.

They should hire you to design the site, they may need a guard dog.

 

[SCBO1]

brudgers dog avatar does'nt look like he'd guard anything but his dog bowl!

pc1

 

[Architect1281]

Bring Insecticide.

But otherwise -

OUTSIDE OPEN AIR NO BUILDING - NO BUILDING CODE Issue - (What Brugers Said)

If you also wear a Zoning Hat then thats your Zoning Issues / Muni Ordinance

If tents - Temporary or fabric / membrane structures and public facilityies required - Restrooms etc.

Inside - Use M Mercantile and All codes apply-

 

[gbhammer]

Bring Insecticide.But otherwise -

OUTSIDE OPEN AIR NO BUILDING - NO BUILDING CODE Issue - (What Brugers Said)

If you also wear a Zoning Hat then thats your Zoning Issues / Muni Ordinance

If tents - Temporary or fabric / membrane structures and public facilityies required - Restrooms etc.

Inside - Use M Mercantile and All codes apply-

Most larger flea markets set up stalls and have a fenced in area. If that is the case then the whole thing needs to be inspected for structural and it is all an M use inside the gates. You need to watch egress and travel distances to exit discharge / yards / public ways. The stalls need to meet separation distances so you do not go over area restrictions con type.