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Soundproofing Foam Fire Tests

F

Frank

Registered User
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,189
Location
Montpelier, VA
In doing a final inspection of a school theater art studio addition I found that they had put 1 or 2 inch thick expanded polypropylene sound panels exposed on much of the ceiling. The material does have ASTM E-84 test results but no full scale test results. The manufacturer is stating that thier product does not count as a foamed plastic and only needs the E-84 test?!?!

Acoustical Panels – Mold Mildew Moisture Resistant – Impact Resistant

Has anybody else run into this?

They claim this to be the industry standard, but I think they are setting up for more disasters.
 
What does ibc require??

I like to do the field test

Some do not like when I get the match near the ceiling material, so will take it outside to see what happens

Also was it tested in that orenintation???
 
So is class " C". Required??

803.1.1 Interior wall and ceiling finish materials. Interior wall and ceiling finish materials shall be classified in accordance with ASTM E 84 or UL 723. Such interior finish materials shall be grouped in the following classes in accordance with their flame spread and smoke-developed indexes.

Class A: Flame spread index 0-25; smoke-developed index 0-450.

Class B: Flame spread index 26-75; smoke-developed index 0-450.

Class C: Flame spread index 76-200; smoke-developed index 0-450.

Exception: Materials tested in accordance with Section 803.1.2.
 
If class C only looks like it is good

I take it the building is sprinklered???
 
Do field test? Then what? Are you going to take responsibility for the results?

I would ask for the design professional responsible for the job to prove compliance. You have a valid question that should be answered by a qualified professional.

Just my $.02
 
IBC 2604 says "Foam plastics shall only be installed as interior finish where approved in accordance with the special provisions of Section 2603.9." This section requires foam plastics to pass large-scale tests such as NFPA 286, FM 4880, UL 1040 or UL 1715. I don't think ASTM E-84 is adequate.
 
cda said:
What does ibc require??I like to do the field test

Some do not like when I get the match near the ceiling material, so will take it outside to see what happens

Also was it tested in that orenintation???
Click to expand...
cda-

I get your point regarding this but would caution others. We had a cotton batting manufacture try this very thing when arguing about flammability of cotton batting prior to it's clear inclusion in the fire code. The owner of the cotton batting company pulls a piece of batting out of his pocket and strikes a lighter... "See this stuff will hardly burn"... as the elected officials all stand there scratching their chins agreeing with the guy as the batting slightly shrinks and chars a little. "No need for any life safety features or suppression systems in that plant, the stuff is noncombustible, he proved it" they say. And hey the place hasn't exploded or burned to the ground yet so I guess they were right?.... Sorry, I'm not drinking that cool-aid.

Require documented compliance with all relevant test standards under the controlled test environment per those standards. Anything less is smoke and fire-trucks.

ZIG
 
rleibowitz said:
Do field test? Then what? Are you going to take responsibility for the results?I would ask for the design professional responsible for the job to prove compliance. You have a valid question that should be answered by a qualified professional.

Just my $.02
Click to expand...
Well besides the paperwork that burns, which says the material does not burn.

I like to sometimes do a field test, because it does burn when they say it does not
 
So is class "c" minimum required for ceilings??

Or does the 2604 rule over it??
 
SECTION 2604 INTERIOR FINISH AND TRIM

2604.1 General. Plastic materials installed as interior finish or trim shall comply with Chapter 8. Foam plastics shall only be installed as interior finish where approved in accordance with the special provisions of Section 2603.9. Foam plastics that are used as interior finish shall also meet the flame spread index requirements for interior finish in accordance with Chapter 8. Foam plastics installed as interior trim shall comply with Section 2604.2.

2604.2 Interior trim. Foam plastic used as interior trim shall comply with Sections 2604.2.1 through 2604.2.4. [F]

2604.2.1 Density. The minimum density of the interior trim shall be 20 pcf (320 kg/m3). [F]

2604.2.2 Thickness. The maximum thickness of the interior trim shall be 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) and the maximum width shall be 8 inches (204 mm). [F]

2604.2.3 Area limitation. The interior trim shall not constitute more than 10 percent of the specific wall or ceiling areas to which it is attached. [F]

2604.2.4 Flame spread. The flame spread index shall not exceed 75 where tested in accordance with ASTM E 84 or UL 723. The smoke-developed index shall not be limited. [F]

Exception: When the interior trim material has been tested as an interior finish in accordance with NFPA 286 and complies with the acceptance criteria in Section 803.1.2.1, it shall not be required to be tested for flame spread index in accordance with ASTM E 84 or UL 723.
 
Paul Sweet said:
IBC 2604 says "Foam plastics shall only be installed as interior finish where approved in accordance with the special provisions of Section 2603.9." This section requires foam plastics to pass large-scale tests such as NFPA 286, FM 4880, UL 1040 or UL 1715. I don't think ASTM E-84 is adequate.
Click to expand...
That is the take I am taking--the manufacturer is saying it is not foam plastic because he buys the expanded polypropylene beads and shapes it with steam heated molds and is not expanding it--but the bead manufacturer calls it foam. The Architect contractor and owner were asking if I could prove it was a hazard because I could not show it had failed a test --LOL.

The scope of ASTM E-84 cautions that the test gives low flamespread ratings to materials that don't stay on the tunnel ceiling due to dripping and burning.

On another project got CO for I-1 5A construction 3 stories yesterday and they want us to sign off for social services license for a few dozen that are not capable of self preservation. I said no it was not built for that. Got call back from corporate that it was a separate one story wing--I had counted 3 stories yesterday in the field. We tried to tell them from POD on that building to I-1 was not a good idea as everyone who does is unhappy within 60 days--this one took 60 minutes. The architect called and said that the Alzhimers wing was 1 story separated from the rest so could be I-2. I got the plans out and he referred me to sheet A2.1--I opened it up and asked him why if it was 1 story did it have stairs 2 and 3 in that area. He said I had a point there. The owners have bought a building that does not fit their needs or what they thought they were getting.
 
So you feel 2604 applies?

How about 803.1.1???

Not sure if in ibc but ask for a tech report from someone you approve

IFC

104.7 Approved materials and equipment. All materials, equipment and devices approved by the fire code official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval.

104.7.1 Material and equipment reuse. Materials, equipment and devices shall not be reused or reinstalled unless such elements have been reconditioned, tested and placed in good and proper working condition and approved.

104.7.2 Technical assistance. To determine the acceptability of technologies, processes, products, facilities, materials and uses attending the design, operation or use of a building or premises subject to inspection by the fire code official, the fire code official is authorized to require the owner or agent to provide, without charge to the jurisdiction, a technical opinion and report. The opinion and report shall be prepared by a qualified engineer, specialist, laboratory or fire safety specialty organization acceptable to the fire code official and shall analyze the fire safety properties of the design, operation or use of the building or premises and the facilities and appurtenances situated thereon, to recommend necessary changes. The fire code official is authorized to require design submittals to be prepared by, and bear the stamp of, a registered design professional.
 
FOAM PLASTIC INSULATION. A plastic that is intentionally expanded by the use of a foaming agent to produce a reduced-density plastic containing voids consisting of open or closed cells distributed throughout the plastic for thermal insulating or acoustical purposes and that has a density less than 20 pounds per cubic foot (pcf) (320 kg/m3).
 
Paul confirmed our original position. Just beware there are a number of companies peddaling this product to venues as not needing the large scale tests through this tortured logic.
 
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