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Special Inspection of Turbine Towers Fabrication? Am I the only one?

Architect1281

Architect1281

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Nov 16, 2009
Messages
782
Location
Foster, Rhode Island, United States
I'm told I am the ONLY ONE!

Fabricated turbine structure in 120 MPH Coastal Zone 3 Section to be assembled on-site to 120 feet to generator

so 1704 Special inspect

1704.2 Inspection of fabricators.

Where fabrication of structural load-bearing members and assemblies ....They carry one helluva Load and they are built in the shop..

1704.2.1 Fabrication and implementation procedures.

The special inspector shall verify that the fabricator maintains detailed fabrication yada yada ... relative to the code requirements for the fabricator’s scope of work.

Exception: Special inspections as required by Section 1704.2 shall not be required where the fabricator is approved in accordance with Section 1704.2.2.

SO if they submit a approval from the appropriated acceptable party i will usually let them use the exception....

1704.2.2 Fabricator approval.

Special inspections required by this code are not required where the work is done on the premises of a fabricator registered and approved to perform such work without special inspection. yada yada yadda ...

Why am I the only one requesting Fabricatior Certification of FABRICATED STEEL STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS FOR WIND TURBINES TO BE DELIVERED HERE FROM ........................................

WAIT FOR IT !!!!!!!!

CHINA

Oh we build these all over the place and NOBODY has EVER asked or required

IRONIC GREEN JOBS FOR MERICA YO
 
Architect:

Our new Bay Bridge was being fabricated in China to save money, somehow in the process somebody found that the welds were suspect, a team of Special Inspectors flew over there and made them redo everything prior to floating them across the pond. Just imagine all those solar panels and wind turbines being made there, to say nothing of the money being flown across the pond, but they are "Green"!
 
* * * *

Architect1281,

I encourage you to stand your ground and require the certs. or for

[ them ] to hire special inspectors on this side of the pond to meet

the requirements.....This should get interesting!....Please keep us

apprised.

Let's see how long it takes for someone up the food chain to

override you. :o

* * * *
 
First ask if you even have jurisdiction. Are your building regulations written such as to include wind turbines and their support structure. I believe this to be a stretch with the IBC. In addition in some states you may find that the Public Utilities Commission or similar body has jurisdiction for power generation facilities and transmission lines.

Because the turbine and blades are clearly manufactured products they would not be subject to special inspection. This leaves you with the tower and its foundation. Did you require calculations justifying the tower?

Fabricator approval per 1704.2.2 is at your option. Even if you give them a break for being certified I would still require some independent inspections in case their QC processes have g ot a weak spot.
 
COnarb Hello again

our previous Governor pushed for WIND POWER to create jobs for CXhXiXnXaX Rhode Islanders (good plan)

North Star feet are firmly planted and backup is on board. to boot the project is in a state park - more jobs for china.

Mark - Absoloutly within scope of IBC and within fabricated constructions

Wind Turbine = Seperatly derived power system, generaator on a stick - same rules as a diesel generator placement with different fuel

the trickfor the "Fabricator" will be the requirement for AISC compliance.

I have contacted AISC for input, they would be my preffered third party verification.

and I have that option by LAW

Ironically Blade Runner is on BBC America as I type???
 
In my opinion the IBC is focused on habital structures which the towers are not. Recognize that IBC Section 101.2 uses the word "structure" which might give you the hook you want. For something like this I might go back to the state or local ordance authorizing the adoption of building regulations. Can this language be interpreted to include wind towers. The point is that the language in the IBC can be trumped by state or local laws.

There is nothing in the IBC requiring AISC fabricator certification although you might find them acceptable. If the tower is fabricated in China the chances of finding an AISC certified fabricator is unlikely. Rather than AISC certification I think that the likely solution will be for special inspectors acceptable to you observing the work.

What do you mean by having that oprtion "by LAW"? Provide references.
 
RI general law that established the statewide uniform code give us Project certification and special testing options at our discretion paid for by the applicant.

a sometimes useful tool. sometimes suggesting the method ensure compliance.
 
I heard of one being planned with an elevator and a public observation deck on the top. That would put it in the IBC.
 
In my opinion the IBC is focused on habital structures
Click to expand...
Huh?

Recognize that IBC Section 101.2 uses the word "structure" which might give you the hook you want.
Click to expand...
STRUCTURE. That which is built or constructed.

Unless mother nature is going to spawn this 120 foot tower with all necessary equipment attached, I'm pretty sure it's a structure. :)
 
So my code review start with Use Group -

312.1 General. Buildings and structures of an accessory character and miscellaneous structures not classified in any specific occupancy shall be constructed, equipped and maintained to conform to the requirements of this code commensurate with the fire and life hazard incidental to their occupancy. Group U shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Yadda Yadda TOWERS (generator on a stick)

Then I go to life safety and address service occupancy only and the issue of who it lands on when it ceases to be a Tower - LIke a cell tower which we permit also Utility Use

And this one is built of steel so CH 22 2201 through 2205 are all in play and due to location and loads and fabrication of elements (Tower segments) CH 17 inspections and Fabricator Certification is applicable.

and I keep hearing "I'm the Only One" T I double Gih ER - >
 
In CT it would also be considered a "threshold" structure and require independent peer review by a seperate licensed PE

Definetly permit required!
 
Architect:

What are you going to require to protect the birds? We built them here on Altamont Pass and the bird groups picked and eventually had them shut down, they have been replacing them with "more bird friendly" towers, but now the are demanding "zero kill" windmills.
 
Do you require special inspection for electric utility poles or transmission towers?

If not, how is this different?
 
It is different in the aspect that on Public ROW or Utility Distribution ROW the Public Utility and the Public Utility Commission have jurisdiction over those items for which the Utility has inspection and testing per the commission guidelines, and the utility inspections program. When tose same distribution lines are on private on non public ROW such as we encounter on private or university property where High VOltage is distributed we ABSOLUTLY inspect the poles the underground and the High Voltage distribution systems - same goes for sewer water and gas utilities within a private distribution system. In some areas of the state compounds we have electrical generations / esentially private power companies and we inspect and get special inspection on those as well. A turbine / PV / diesel generator/ or gas fired private power plant, is a seperatly derived power sysytem and as such is within the non- public utility constructed environment. Same thing for light pole on public streets, in ROW or easment to structure the utility has jurisdiction. the light pole within the campus - or compound are considered private. we permit verify and inspect it all.

my next exposure to wind power will be at the wastewater treatment facility (which we inspect) where 3 1.5 MW wind turbines will generate 660 volt stepup transformed to 11,600 V and then distributed onsite for use there
 
Many welds require a continuous inspection. I believe there is something about having the proper facilities to produce compliant work. The inspector needs to be at the factory, not inspecting after the fact.

Good catch arch1281.. Stand your ground.. Not so sure I would have even thought about it.
 
Oh yes I have already been told that Fabricator certification "might be a problem" cause the special inspection criteria specifies AISC and AWS specs and certified personnell.

God Bless Table 1704.3

see thats what I like about this forum - I changed my mind on unlimited area application s by 507 after holding an opinion for 30 years that type 5 constr could not be used.

Of course those years were as an intern or DP I'v only been doing enforcement full time for 6 yr but using the code for 40 + (cut teeth on BOCA 1970) what a difference
 
UPDATE I have received many many peices of paper pontificating the virtues of steel production and family photos of factory workes who weld.

Can anyone read chinese. I have also spoken with very helpful staff at AISC and to the worlds credit there are several factories in China that

have applied for and received AISC and AWS type certifications, and you can even look up those agencies and factories online.

Was the info submitted to me in any way pointing to one of those............................. NO !!

well they have until march to complete the project.......

Funny thing to not far from where this turbine is to be located there are THOUSANDS of very experienced individuals welding away

two or three shifts a day building Boats for above and underwater and bridges and .......... BIG stuff

SO either the PE is going to have the raw product tested and the go watch it be welded .....................

Again I keep hearing "I'm The ONLY ONE"

All they had to do was pick a factory and fabricator from the list of AISC approved / certified ??

I am the only one ..... to which I say Thank-you I know I can't be though.
 
Well domestic steel it is; even though there are many Chinese mills and fabricators that have AISC certifications. These individuals chose NO TO purchase from a certified plant / fabricator.

I also basically was to disqualify the PE who was reading reports sent to him by others to certify and not an acceptable special inspector relative to metalurgy and welding expertise.

The trump card came in 1979 when for some reason the state of RI enacted this Law.

§ 37-2.1-3 Purchase of steel and steel products. – (a) Every public agency shall require that every contract document for the construction, reconstruction, alteration, repair, improvement, or maintenance of public works contain a provision that if any steel products are to be used or supplied in the performance of the contract only steel products as herein defined shall be used or supplied in the performance of the contract or any subcontracts thereunder.

How helpful was that!
 
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