Special Inspections and Pole Barns

[jar546]

Are there special inspections required for commercial pole barns?

 

[kilitact]

Are there special inspections required for commercial pole barns?

Same has for any building.

 

[jar546]

Same has for any building.

I am not aware of any for the framing portion of a prescriptively built Type VB construction. What is specific to a pole barn, if anything?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

How could it be prescriptively? There is nothing in the code about how a pole building is constructed.

 

[kilitact]

I am not aware of any for the framing portion of a prescriptively built Type VB construction. What is specific to a pole barn, if anything?

Structural observation, if required by the EOR, could be one. Steel if used could be another.

 

[jar546]

How could it be prescriptively? There is nothing in the code about how a pole building is constructed.

That example is for a regular stick framed building, not a pole barn. I was using that as an example.

Does anyone see where connection points on a pole barn are subject to special inspections?

 

[Mark K]

There are no special inspection requirements that are unique to pole buildings.

Structural observation is not an inspection. Inspections are more focused and detailed. In addition the reporting requirements for structural observation are less than for special inspections.

The building official is allowed to make additional inspections if he so wishes.

 

[kilitact]

There are no special inspection requirements that are unique to pole buildings.Structural observation is not an inspection. Inspections are more focused and detailed. In addition the reporting requirements for structural observation are less than for special inspections.

The building official is allowed to make additional inspections if he so wishes.

Mark K, IBC 2009 chapter 17 includes structural observation, which requires reports etc. when required by the EOR or the building official. This could be driven by Section 1704.15 for special cases

 

[Mark K]

Section 1704.15 gives the building official permission to require special inspections, not structural observations. Special inspections are performed by special inspectors who with rare exceptions are not the EOR.

For structural observations the only reporting requirement is "At the conclusion of the work included in the permit the structural observer shall submit to the building official a written statement that the visits have been made and identify any reported deficiencies which to the best of the structural observer's knowledge, have not been resolved." This is less than required for special inspection reports as noted in Section 1704.1.2.

If Section 1704.15 is to be used to require special inspections in fairly common situations then I suggest that it is not s special case. If it is not a special case then if the building official wishes that there be special inspections for certain situations he should work to have the building code officially modified to require the desired special inspections.

 

[kilitact]

Section 1704.15 gives the building official permission to require special inspections, not structural observations. Special inspections are performed by special inspectors who with rare exceptions are not the EOR.For structural observations the only reporting requirement is "At the conclusion of the work included in the permit the structural observer shall submit to the building official a written statement that the visits have been made and identify any reported deficiencies which to the best of the structural observer's knowledge, have not been resolved." This is less than required for special inspection reports as noted in Section 1704.1.2.

If Section 1704.15 is to be used to require special inspections in fairly common situations then I suggest that it is not s special case. If it is not a special case then if the building official wishes that there be special inspections for certain situations he should work to have the building code officially modified to require the desired special inspections.

Section 1704.15, special cases; 1. Construction materials and systems that are alternatives to materials and systems prescribed by this code. (pole buildings) 2. Unusual design applications of materials described in this code. (pole buildings) One and two work for me as far as being special cases.Section 1710.2 and 1710.3 could also applied to the design of pole buildings Section 1710.3 #3 when so designated by the registered design professional responsible for the structural desin,. If this was the case I would ask the applicant to complete a special inspection agreement form. #4 when such observation is specifically required by the building official

 

[Mark K]

Section 1710.3 is available only when the basic wind speed exceeds 110 mph, otherwise this option is not available. Thus if you are in Oregon and your local city or county had not adopted special wind speeds then this option is not available.

I sense that you believe that Section 1710.3 item 4 allows you to require that a statement of special inspection be submitted that deals with pole buildings. This is confusing a structural observation with an inspection. Having the authority to require a structural observation does not give the building official the authority to require that a special inspection be performed.

Structural observations are intended to focus on overall compliance hence the use of the term ”general conformance” in the definition of Structural Observation in Section 1702. When performing structural observations the engineer will not check each condition against the drawings nor will he look at each instance of a detail.

Structural observations also allow the engineer an opportunity to see if the contractor has added something not called for by the construction documents that might create problems.

Differentiating between special inspection and structural observation can have significant liability implications for a professional engineer if there is a disagreement between the engineer and the owner.

With regards to Section 1704.15 pole buildings are specifically provided for in the building code and thus they are not alternates. Similarly pole buildings are not unusual applications of materials provided for in the building code. Pole buildings are not unusual especially so in some parts of the country.

There is sometimes a tendency for the building official when he does not agree with the code to tell the architect or engineer to do it the way the building official wants even if the code does not require it. When this is the case the building official is engaging in extortion. In these cases I prefer the building official to be up front about it rather than hiding behind contorted code interpretations.

 

[kilitact]

Section 1710.3 is available only when the basic wind speed exceeds 110 mph, otherwise this option is not available. Thus if you are in Oregon and your local city or county had not adopted special wind speeds then this option is not available.I sense that you believe that Section 1710.3 item 4 allows you to require that a statement of special inspection be submitted that deals with pole buildings. This is confusing a structural observation with an inspection. Having the authority to require a structural observation does not give the building official the authority to require that a special inspection be performed.

Structural observations are intended to focus on overall compliance hence the use of the term ”general conformance” in the definition of Structural Observation in Section 1702. When performing structural observations the engineer will not check each condition against the drawings nor will he look at each instance of a detail.

Structural observations also allow the engineer an opportunity to see if the contractor has added something not called for by the construction documents that might create problems.

Differentiating between special inspection and structural observation can have significant liability implications for a professional engineer if there is a disagreement between the engineer and the owner.

With regards to Section 1704.15 pole buildings are specifically provided for in the building code and thus they are not alternates. Similarly pole buildings are not unusual applications of materials provided for in the building code. Pole buildings are not unusual especially so in some parts of the country.

There is sometimes a tendency for the building official when he does not agree with the code to tell the architect or engineer to do it the way the building official wants even if the code does not require it. When this is the case the building official is engaging in extortion. In these cases I prefer the building official to be up front about it rather than hiding behind contorted code interpretations.

You appear to read that this is something I would apply or that would be applicable in Oregon. I was pointing out the possible uses of special inspections from Chapter 17 for pole buildings or others, and where I could see there use. The authority to required special inspections for our area is documented in chapter 17. You say the design of pole buildings is in the building code, perhaps you could cite this code section. Thanks

 

[Mark K]

Refer to IBC section 1807.3 "Embedded posts and poles"

I believe you will find wood design provisions that deal with the elements usually used in pole construction.

 

[kilitact]

Pole buildings are highly stressed, structurally indeterminate structures that most generally rely on wall sheathing (wood or metal sheathing) for stability. There are a minimum of 10 connections and structural elements that require structural analysis to insure building code compliance. A list for a simple pole building:

1. Main columns (posts) solid sawn or laminated

2. Post embedment (constrained and non-constrained) From chap. 18, I was aware of the pole constraint part of the design for pole buildings code provisions that are used for some pole buildings. Some designs for pole building relay on concrete pads for pole constraints,

3. Post footing thickness and diameter

4. Truss to post connection (uplift and down load)

5. Roof purlins

6. Wall girts

7. Wall sheathing

8. Roof sheathing

9. Gable wall posts

10. Lateral bracing for gable posts and trusses

There is no prescriptive code for pole buildings. All that I’ve reviewed and inspected have been engineered. For most of them the EOR has required structural observation, which is part of our special inspection program. Other special inspections were soils, steel, concrete, anchors, epoxy (special cases) and high strength bolting.

 

[jar546]

I am not a fan of wood pole buildings and don't think they would fair well in high wind areas as uplift is a major factor.

 

[Mark K]

It was stated "...structural observation, which is part of our special inspection program." It would be more appropriate to consider structural observation as part of your quality assurance program. As I have said before structural observations are not inspections and definitely not special inspections.

In your list of inspections it is not clear which you consider as part of the building departments inspections and which you consider special inspections? The generic special inspections for wood construction as listed in section 1705.5 (2012 IBC) are rather limited. While the provisions of Sections 1705.10.1 and 1705.11.2 are more inclusive, and may include items not on your list, they are not always mandated.

The wood special inspection provisions in Sections 1705.10.1 would not apply unless you are in a high wind region. The provisions of Section 1705.11.2 might apply in Oregon but the fact that barns, an agricultural storage structure, are not required to be designed for seismic loads (IBC Section 1613.1 item 3) might suggest that it is odd to require special inspections triggered by seismic criteria when the structure is not required to be designed for seismic loads.

I am surprised to see High Strength Bolting as a special inspection for pole buildings since pole buildings are typically of wood construction and since HS Bolting is only required for some steel construction. Still it is possible to design and construct a steel pole building.

 

[peach]

special inspections are always, really, the burden of the owner, not the building department.

We don't test the materials or the systems.. we review the findings to determine code compliance (or not).

 

[Mark K]

Agree that special inspectors are hired by the owner.

On rereading the posting by kilitack I mistook the list of plan check items for a listing of inspections. My mistake. Apologies.

 

[peach]

1706.2 really only requires special inspections for wood during field gluing of MWRS elements and periodic inspection of teh MWRS. Other than the concrete testing, I'm not seeing a requirement.