Special needs classroom door hardware type allowed/required

[cda]

For everyone that realizes CA is special; the public schools are the jurisdiction of the CA Division of the State Architect (DSA) and the State Fire Marshal (SFM). Fire Marshal duties many times are covered by the local Fire Marshal but the SFM retains jurisdiction. For issues that require AHJ negotiation, both DSA and SFM must be satisfied so what appear to be similar circumstances at different sites many times are completely different solutions. I4 is a CA SFM occupancy designation, not ICC.

Code link to SFM? I-4

I know the sfm has their own rules but they are published somewhere ?

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/ccr/gov.ca.oal.title19.html

 

[tmurray]

In situations like this we try to sit down with the contractor/designer and come to an agreement that we don't feel compromises the safety in an emergency, but still gives them the security that they need. Codes are very robust documents, but they cannot address every situation that may exist. We all must work together to ensure that the building is safe, but also can actually be used by the occupants.

 

[cda]

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/firelifesafety/pdf/SFM%20Regulated%20Occupancies%20March%202011%20_final_.pdf

 

[cda]

Custodial

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/codeinterpretation/pdf/2014/14-001.pdf

Still trying to see in a public school where the SFM bumps it to an I-4??

 

[ADAguy]

MH, many thanks for your responses to cda. And to Jim, this is a single story. I am aware of 504, mainstreaming requirements and others. In some cases the level of need mandates hands on full time assisatance with specialized support devices. There are also issues with some individuals who are prone to outbursts that are both pral and physical. A fine line exists between those whose cognitive abilities are mainstreamable and those who may be dangerous to themselves and others.

Also if allowed to walk in a fence secured area gate hardware becomes a concern, even with full time aides.

 

[cda]

MH, many thanks for your responses to cda. And to Jim, this is a single story. I am aware of 504, mainstreaming requirements and others. In some cases the level of need mandates hands on full time assisatance with specialized support devices. There are also issues with some individuals who are prone to outbursts that are both pral and physical. A fine line exists between those whose cognitive abilities are mainstreamable and those who may be dangerous to themselves and others.Also if allowed to walk in a fence secured area gate hardware becomes a concern, even with full time aides.

So where is the SFM code section that pushes it to an I-4?

 

[jdfruit]

cda

See matrix adoption table preceding CBC ch 3 and 308.6

 

[cda]

cdaSee matrix adoption table preceding CBC ch 3 and 308.6

as in page 89 and 90?? ;;

http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_resources/2013California/13Building/PDFs/Chapter%203%20-%20Use%20and%20Occupancy%20Classification.pdf

still trying to figure out how you get a public school pushed to and I-4??

 

[jdfruit]

special licensing from social services and SFM interps

 

[cda]

Ok I give up

So a new school is built

And it is possibly a mixed occupancy E and I-4, interesting

Somewhere it seems like the requirements should be in black and white, so people know what to design to.

 

[jdfruit]

That's why California is so "special" (apologies to Dana Carvey as "Church Lady")

 

[ADAguy]

MH, thank you for explaining the nuances of CA I-4's to cda.

cda doesn't appear to understand that students who are "wanderers" require on campus custodial care. Safety of student wanderers is a significant concern that requires secure areas. Students can move quicker than many imagine.

Teachers and aides are not usually attached by leashes to their students. Students should not be confined but also be allowed into adjacent yards too.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

Maybe the "students" should be leashed to the walls.

Another example of maximum expenditure for the least return.

Brent.

 

[cda]

MH, thank you for explaining the nuances of CA I-4's to cda. cda doesn't appear to understand that students who are "wanderers" require on campus custodial care. Safety of student wanderers is a significant concern that requires secure areas. Students can move quicker than many imagine.

Teachers and aides are not usually attached by leashes to their students. Students should not be confined but also be allowed into adjacent yards too.

Yes I do understand and have seen enough to know that

When your child is in the hands of the school they are responsible for them.

So they need to provide enough staff to assure your child is taken care of

Not locked down.

And I do think some of the problem is main streaming

Even in psych hospitals where people are actually locked down,

They do one on one for some patients

 

[ADAguy]

One on one is done but it still comes down to a "Risk Management" issue.

A large tree fell in Pasadena without warning or wind (appeared healthy, 8 children injured. Must we now employ 'tree guards"? Arborist post mortem release is pending.