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Stair Enclosure Doors

M

Mech

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Joined
Oct 30, 2009
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Location
Eastern PA
This post has pictures, otherwise it was the same as my topic entitled, Are these doors in series?

IBC 2006

I have a one hour fire rated stair enclosure. I would like to use the enclosure to connect the office (business occupancy) with the factory. To do this, I need to be able to exit into the enclosure. Nonseparated mixed use is ok. From the factory, I need the door to swing into the enclosure (the direction of travel) due to an occupant load in excess of 50. (1008.1.2) From the office, the door must swing into the enclosure due to space constraints. The non-accessible exterior exit door in the enclosure is only required for the non-accessible second floor. There are enough accessible exits from the office and factory without this exit door.

The door from the factory passes beneath the stair stringer. There is sufficient headroom of 80".

Exit Enclosure Doors

1008.1.7 - Spaces between two doors in a series shall be 48 inches min. plus the width of a door swinging into the space. Doors in a series shall swing either in the same direction or away from the space between the doors.

Does this section apply since the path of travel from either interior door turns toward the exterior door?

ANSI A117.1 - 2003

Section 404.2.5 basically shows the same thing as the IBC section above. My enclosure is wider than the 60" minimum.

Would either of my two options be allowed? In both instances, the required manuevering distances overlap one another but the 5 ft turn around space is outside the swing of both doors. In option 2, the doors are offset. I can use the approach as shown, or the approach shown in option 1.

Thanks for any input.

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Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

These doors can not be consider in series. It would appear that the occupant load exceeds 50, if that is true the one of the doors swings in the wrong directiion. Each of the doors swinging into the one exterior exit door is in series only with exit doors into the stairwell. :)
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

5' turnaround in an exit enclosure?

I thought I'd seen everything.

Then I saw it again in the same post.

Damn I need to stop spending so much time on Sikipedia.

-----------

Seriously: This arrangement is a bad idea from a life safety standpoint. With the doors like that and the exit enclosure being used for access between the spaces, one or both doors are going to wind up propped open for convenience.

Technically, openings in a vertical exit enclosure must be necessary. I'm sure a creative plan reviewer could find a way to deem one or both unnecessary.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

I would suggest you come up with something different. Exit enclosures are only to be used for egress. What about creating a corridor with a wall where you have the line for headroom so that the doors to the office and factory no longer open into the enclosure?

1020.1 Enclosures required.

Interior exit stairways and interior exit ramps shall be enclosed with fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section 706 or horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance with Section 711, or both. Exit enclosures shall have a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours where connecting four stories or more and not less than 1 hour where connecting less than four stories. The number of stories connected by the exit enclosure shall include any basements but not any mezzanines. An exit enclosure shall not be used for any purpose other than means of egress.

1020.1.1 Openings and penetrations.

Exit enclosure opening protectives shall be in accordance with the requirements of Section 715.

Except as permitted in Section 402.4.6, openings in exit enclosures other than unprotected exterior openings shall be limited to those necessary for exit access to the enclosure from normally occupied spaces and for egress from the enclosure.

Where interior exit enclosures are extended to the exterior of a building by an exit passageway, the door assembly from the exit enclosure to the exit passageway shall be protected by a fire door assembly conforming to the requirements in Section 715.4. Fire door assemblies in exit enclosures shall comply with Section 715.4.4.

Elevators shall not open into an exit enclosure.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Coug Dad: Do you know what section states that exit enclosures can be used for normal circulation? This exit enclosure is the only accessible path between the factory and the office, other than exiting the building and walking about 400 ft around the building to get to another entrance (entrance, not an exit door.) I do not want to build another vestibule to create another entrance (13,000 sq ft area.) Is it still allowed for normal circulation?

TJacobs: I'm working on something new in case neither of these two options comply with the code.

Brudgers: I found your first four sentences amusing. :lol: The actual employee load, per the owner, is 5 people. Dust from the factory is a problem and will deter the employees from propping the doors in the exit enclosure open. We have actually worked with this client in other facilities to specifically ventilate and pressurize adjacent rooms to the factory to keep dust out. I know this has fact carries no weight, but due to the dust problem, the doors will not be allowed to be propped open. Seriously, I need a stair enclosure to get down from the second floor. How do I get to the second floor (only one exit required from the second floor) if I can not have openings into the stair enclosure from adjacent portions of the building?

Lou Marks: Are you saying that for egress and according to the code, the upper door is in series with the exterior exit door, the lower door is in series with the exterior exit door, but the interior doors are not in series with each other? If so, then each set of series doors swings in the direction of travel. For a normal pathway between factory and office, the interior doors in option 1 do not meet code since 48" is required between the opened doors, which is why I showed the turnaround space to show that there is extra accessible space and I also reconfigured the doors in option 2 to possibly avoid doors in series.

All: What horizontal distance is required between these two interior doors so they are considered not in series? I don't think there is enough room to widen the enclosure. I could probably lengthen it though.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

If it is a two story building without an elevator, how would you access the second floor if you did not use the exit enclosure for normal circulation? The commentary provides some information, but the best reference is ICC formal interpretation 27-08.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Oh, why didn't you tell us you were using the dust deterrence exception?
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Coug Dad: I am looking on the ICC site under interpretations, but I cannot find 27-08. Is that where you saw it or did you buy the ICC interpretation book? Found it! Chapter 10, Means of Egress, Issued 3-6-2009.

I originally had the interior door on the upper side of the enclosure swinging out of the enclosure, but someone in my office told me that I could only use the enclosure for egress purposes which prompted me to swing the door inward, which opened up these other questions.

Brudgers: Sorry, I forgot to mention exception 3 under section 4.5 of the ICC (International Cleaning Code)! :lol:
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

The interp clears nothing up.

...the intent is to limit openings to those necessary for exit access to the exit passageway from normally occupied spaces

and for egress from the exit passage way in addition to prohibiting the exit passageway from being used for storage or

the placement of furniture, vending machines, etc., because these situations may obstruct the path of exit travel and,

if the materials are combustible, create a life safety hazard. The code does not specifically prohibit the exit

passageway from also being used as a path of entry into a building.

If you are not using the stairway enclosure for egress from the occupied spaces on the first floor, I do not see that the interp clears anything up.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Jake,

The path would be one of the egress paths from the space. Therefore, it can also be used for circulation.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Mech,

Whenever you come up with an acceptable plan, will you please post on here for us to view?

Thanks! :)

.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Mech said:
Do you know what section states that exit enclosures can be used for normal circulation?
Click to expand...
Take a look at 1018.1 "Exits shall comply with Sections 1018 through 1023 and the applicable requirements of Sections 1003 through 1013. An exit shall not be used for any purpose that interferes with its function as a means of egress. Once a given level of exit protection is achieved, such level of protection shall not be reduced until arrival at the exit discharge."
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

I spoke with the code reviewer, who is very helpful and pleasant to talk with. For multiple reasons, I am investigating the possibility of calling this a mezzanine so I do not need an exit enclosure.

I will be meeting with the reviewer next month with plans so I can get an official review of whatever we come up with. I'll post whatever we get ok'd.

Thanks everyone for your input.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

the doors are being used for egress, from each side into the strairwell.

so the firefighters cannot come up the stairs and enter onto the floor through the doors???

and if a building has the elevator that goes out, you cannot walk up the stairs and open the door to get to work???

did the original question get answered what is a series door??? is it like going out a front door where you open one door then have to open another door to get out?? and that is where you need the seperation??
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Coug Dad said:
Plans Approver, are you saying that an exit enclosure can not be used for circulation?
Click to expand...
No :!: :!: :!: What I quoted from the code says any use of the enclosure can not interfere with its use as a means of egress. So it can be used for almost anything as long as the means of egress is maintained. No storage. I've seen/designed 2 story buildings where a guard station/reception area is in an enlarged stair enclosure. And, certainly, vertical access to and from other floors is permitted.

I'll repeat the code section:

Code: 
1018.1 Exits shall comply with Sections 1018 through 1023 and the applicable requirements of Sections 1003 through 1013. An exit shall not be used for any purpose that interferes with its function as a means of egress. Once a given level of exit protection is achieved, such level of protection shall not be reduced until arrival at the exit discharge.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Mech said:
I spoke with the code reviewer, who is very helpful and pleasant to talk with. For multiple reasons, I am investigating the possibility of calling this a mezzanine so I do not need an exit enclosure.I will be meeting with the reviewer next month with plans so I can get an official review of whatever we come up with. I'll post whatever we get ok'd.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Click to expand...
Aren't the codes just crazier than he!! Just call it something else so you don't have to comply with another section.........

Sometimes I just don't understand! :roll:
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Yep - I think we're going with a mezzanine. It's enclosed, so I will need two means of egress (one of which requires a direct access to an exit from the mezzanine), but neither of the two stairs need to be fire rated. So now I do not have a vertical exit enclosure which "shall not be used for any purpose other than means of egress." - Section 1020.1

We can save money on construction costs, but we'll probably spend more for engineering.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

Over the phone, I was told to design a passageway between the office and factory, other than through the exit enclosure. It wasn't a 100% "no, you can't do this." It was more like a "That probably will not work. Make another passageway so this won't even be a potential issue." Pretty much, CYA.

So I met with the code reviewer. I have an enclosed mezzanine with two un-enclosed stairs. No exit enclosure is required.
 
Re: Stair Enclosure Doors

I missed your post of Feb.5. I disagree with your plan reviewer that the both stairs can be unenclosed. One means of egress must connect directly to an exit. 2006 IBC 505.3 and 505.4 exception 2.

"EXIT. That portion of a means of egress system which is separated from other interior spaces of a building or structure by fire-resistance-rated construction and opening protectives as required to provide a protected path of egress travel between the exit access and the exit discharge. Exits include exterior exit doors at ground level, exit enclosures, exit passageways, exterior exit stairs, exterior exit ramps and horizontal exits."

Is your mezzanine means of egress to an exit door at grade, an exterior stair or an exterior ramp?

Does your mezzanine means of egress connect to a horizontal exit or exit passageway?

If the answers are no, then you need to have one means of egress directly to an exit enclosure per 1019. The other means of egress may be unenclosed.
 
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