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Stairwell Signage Interpretation

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base.v5

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Joined
Oct 17, 2013
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10
Location
Central KY
I have a (hopefully) quick question to see how you guys would interpret this particular situation. I have a an I2 facility with two stairwells that have required signage at each level. The stairs run from the 3rd floor to the basement, but there is a partition blocking access from the 1st floor (exit discharge) to the basement. This is a full frosted plexiglass partition, not just a swing gate to keep people from going down the stairs past the exit discharge. There are two doors right next to each other, one is the exit discharge from the 1st floor and the other is exit discharge from the basement. There is no re-entry hardware on the exit doors.

My question is with the stairwell signs. They state the floor level, no roof access, the exit discharge location, and the floors served by the stairs. The problem is that the floors served is listed as 3rd to basement. Would you require these signs to be changed or is this acceptable? I am using IBC 2012 and 1022.9 to try and understand the requirements.

The facility also has a Knox Box giving firefighters all access and they have been given pre-plans showing the stair layouts.

Thanks for any opinions!
 
Welcome!!!

How did you find us

So if I am coming down from the second floor, I cannot go to the basement using the stairs?

Maybe without going outside and somehow have access back into the building??
 
Joined last year, found the site by searching for building code forums on Google. Became a member because this is what I do for a living and I enjoy having a solid resource to bounce ideas off of. I usually don't post as I tend to find most of the information I need by searching old posts or other sites. This has me stumped though.
 
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Correct, normal occupants have no access to the basement while using the stairs. You would basically have to exit and use a key to enter the basement portion of the stair or smash through the plexiglass divider.
 
Not a stair person , but would you say for first and second exit terminates at first floor

And than a sign in basement stairs terminate at first floor exit. ?

From 2009

Signs are to be placed at each floor landing in all exit stairways connecting more than three stories. The signs are to designate the level or story of the landings above or below the level of exit discharge. The purpose is to inform the occupants of their location with respect to the level of exit discharge as they use the stairway to leave the building. More importantly, it allows the fire service to locate and gain quick access to the fire floor. At each level, the direction to the exit discharge is required to be indicated. The identification of the level that is the exit discharge also is to be indicated at each level. The identification of the roof access availability is for the fire department. Roof access is required by Section 1009.13. For visibility, the signs are required to be located approximately 5 feet (1524 mm) above the floor surface and to be visible when the stairway door is open. The need to designate levels remaining to reach the level of exit discharge may mean that the numbering is other than that designation used by building management. For example, a designation of P1, P2, P3, etc., would not be acceptable for stairways in the basement parking garage, since in themselves they do not designate the floor level below the level of exit discharge.

To aid people with vision impairments, the floor designation must also be available in both raised letters and Braille at each door. Tactile signage indicating the door leading to the exterior is covered in Section 1011.3.
 
1022.7 Discharge identification. A stairway in an exit enclosure shall not continue below its level of exit discharge unless an approved barrier is provided at the level of exit discharge to prevent persons from unintentionally continuing into levels below. Directional exit signs shall be provided as specified in Section 1011.

1022.8 Floor identification signs. A sign shall be provided at each floor landing in exit enclosures connecting more than three stories designating the floor level, the terminus of the top and bottom of the exit enclosure and the identification of the stair or ramp. The signage shall also state the story of, and the direction to, the exit discharge and the availability of roof access from the enclosure for the fire department. The sign shall be located 5 feet (1524 mm) above the floor landing in a position that is readily visible when the doors are in the open and closed positions. Floor level identification signs in tactile characters complying with ICC A117.1 shall be located at each floor level landing adjacent to the door leading from the enclosure into the corridor to identify the floor level.

1022.8.1 Signage requirements. Stairway identification signs shall comply with all of the following requirements:

1. The signs shall be a minimum size of 18 inches by 12 inches (457 mm by 305 mm).

2. The letters designating the identification of the stair enclosure shall be a minimum of 11/2 inches (38 mm) in height.

3. The number designating the floor level shall be a minimum of 5 inches (127 mm) in height and located in the center of the sign.

4. All other lettering and numbers shall be a minimum of 1 inch (25 mm) in height.

5. Characters and their background shall have a nonglare finish. Characters shall contrast with their background, with either light characters on a dark background or dark characters on a light background.

6. When signs required by Section 1022.8 are installed in interior exit enclosures of buildings subject to Section 1024, the signs shall be made of the same materials as required by Section 1024.4.
 
base.v5 said:
Correct, normal occupants have no access to the basement while using the stairs. You would basically have to exit and use a key to enter the basement portion of the stair or smash through the plexiglass divider.
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Still comply with 1008.1.9.11 exception 3?

1008.1.9.11 Stairway doors.

Interior stairway means of egress doors shall be openable from both sides without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.

Exceptions:

1. Stairway discharge doors shall be openable from the egress side and shall only be locked from the opposite side.

2. This section shall not apply to doors arranged in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_4_par085.htm')'>Section 403.5.3.

3. In stairways serving not more than four stories, doors are permitted to be locked from the side opposite the egress side, provided they are openable from the egress side and capable of being unlocked simultaneously without unlatching upon a signal from the fire command center, if present, or a signal by emergency personnel from a single location inside the main entrance to the building.

4. Stairway exit doors shall be openable from the egress side and shall only be locked from the opposite side in Group B, F, M and S occupancies where the only interior access to the tenant space is from a single exit stair where permitted in :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_10_par243.htm')'>Section 1021.2.

5. Stairway exit doors shall be openable from the egress side and shall only be locked from the opposite side in Group R-2 occupancies where the only interior access to the dwelling unit is from a single exit stair where permitted in :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_10_par243.htm')'>Section 1021.2.
 
FV....It should be good as the barrier is to prevent travel below the level of exit discharge if I understand correctly....If it meets the requirements coming up from the basement it should be good...

I would not have an issue with the basement being identified as a level connected by the stair as long as the discharge level was clearly identified....
 
steveray, I am using 2012 IBC. I think the reference you posted is from an earlier version although the language seems less confusing than the newer IBC.

Let me clarify the situation some as my original post may be misleading. The building is four stories, basement to 3rd floor. The basement stair exits out of the building at the 1st floor. In the same stairwell enclosure, the 1st through 3rd floors also exit out at the 1st floor. The exit doors are located side by side and are separated by a lexan/plexiglass barrier that restricts the passage of occupants from the 1st floor to the basement. The required signage on each floor level states "STAIR SERVES BASEMENT TO 3RD FLOOR". Although this is technically true, the lexan barrier does not allow occupants to actually get to the basement in this stairwell. Would you have them change the sign to read "STAIR SERVES 1ST FLOOR TO 3RD FLOOR"?
 
I quoted 09....Sorry...I must've missed and thought there was key access at lexan.....if there is NO WAY in, I would have the signs changed....
 
* = *

I believe that Section 1022.9 [ in the `12 IBC ] is the

section that provides the charging language to require

a change of the actual signage to be accurate and compliant

on each level.

* = *
 
This is where it gets fuzzy. The stairs go from the basement to the 3rd floor. The 'terminus' of the enclosure is the basement, but because of the barrier there is no easy access to that floor. As several others have mentioned I am leaning towards the 'STAIR SERVES 1ST FLOOR TO 3RD FLOOR'. I believe this is more inline with the intent and is also more accurate information for building occupants.
 
In a 100 years it will not matter

people will not read the signs and will not care if they cannot get to the basement

I guess it does help the person in the basement see that they cannot get to the upper flors using the stairs, and might turn around and take the elevator.
 
Rick18071 said:
I the stairway is only serving the 3 floors and not the basement you dn't need signs. Only need them if serving more than 3 stories.
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2012 IBC 1011.4 Raised character and Braille exit signs.

A sign stating EXIT in raised characters and Braille and complying with ICC A117.1 shall be provided adjacent to each door to an area of refuge, an exterior area for assisted rescue, an exit stairway, an exit ramp, an exit passageway and the exit discharge.
 
Rick18071 said:
I the stairway is only serving the 3 floors and not the basement you dn't need signs. Only need them if serving more than 3 stories.
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It does serve more than three floors, just bad service
 
( .................. )



"It does serve more than three floors, just bad service"
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i.e. - Change the signs to be more easily understood & comply withthe code requirements [ Exit access & Accessibility ].



( .................. )
 
cda said:
It does serve more than three floors, just bad service
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Haha, true. To be fair though this is a psychiatric institution so there is a reason that the barrier was put up to separate the basement.
 
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