I was given a set of plans, signed and sealed, for a mezzanine in a storage occupancy, type 2b building fully sprinklered. The columns for it are spaced at 15 feet o.c. both ways and a total area of about 90 feet by 120 feet and the loads provided are 135 DL and 15 LL. So far, it is not very interesting until I realize that the columns are tubular 6x6 and there are no notes as to the plate size but one note that says to anchor to slab with standard exp. type anchors. But what I did find interesting was a note that reads "it is incumbent upon the owner to verify the building slab and soil bearing capacity adequacy to support a max. column loading of 34,000 pounds."
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Structural note on plans
- Thread starter rktect 1
- Start date
steveray
SAWHORSE
DL>LL?.....I would ask the question (along with the others I am sure will come up) in a plan review letter to be addressed specifically by the appropriate DP....sounds like someone didn't get paid to do their homework, so they are pushing it down the line...
mark handler
SAWHORSE
The DP signed and sealed the drawing?
Did he/she provide calc's?
Did he/she didn't provide foundation design?
Did he/she provide calc's?
Did he/she didn't provide foundation design?
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Can anyone say "plan check correction"?
Here, I would expect full structural calculations and some determination that the foundations and base plates arer able to support the loads impossed. I am also not familiar with a what a "standard expansion anchor bolt" looks like or the properties of same. Looks like plans and documentation are inadequate for approval and possibly even inadequate for review. I'm not very accepting of assumptions or passing the buck.
Sometimes I am not certain as to how to move foreward.
1. Sarcastic and cryptic review comment like "WTF"
2. Ask for each and every little thing he should provide me, possibly 20-30 comments like "Provide the size base plate. Provide the size anchors. Provide the connection detail for beam to column. What are those stairs made from? etc."
3. One size fits all comment like "Submit full structural set of drawings and calc for mezzanine."
4. Rejected due to insufficient information provided for mezzanine.
1. Sarcastic and cryptic review comment like "WTF"
2. Ask for each and every little thing he should provide me, possibly 20-30 comments like "Provide the size base plate. Provide the size anchors. Provide the connection detail for beam to column. What are those stairs made from? etc."
3. One size fits all comment like "Submit full structural set of drawings and calc for mezzanine."
4. Rejected due to insufficient information provided for mezzanine.
steveray
SAWHORSE
A guy in our State office had a NFG stamp......3 or 4 should work...Detail load paths to and through foundation, something like that....
rktect 1 said:
Every once in a while its good for the soul to just go hog wild with a 5 page comment letter describing every little thing wrong in every keyed note. Makes ya feel a bit smug/good. We who review have that much as release in a world where the wrong/right political connection can get us fired for doing our job correctly.rktect 1 said:
Papio Bldg Dept
Platinum Member
5. Request meeting (phone or in person) with RDP. Sometimes in talking it through as you would in preliminary review meetings is helpful to both parties and avoids tail feathers getting ruffled out of shape. Hopefully, you will receive the necessary documentation to verify compliance with the code and feel comfortable knowing the structure will support it's anticipated use (for a 15psf LL, I assume this has removable rail and the forklift will load the mezzanine from the level below) without requiring more than what is required. For structural towers, and other projects outside my comfort zone, I often outsource structural reviews to a third party for additional review and commenting.rktect 1 said:
Best of luck to you.
When in doubt check Section 107.
Construction documents shall be in accordance with Sections 107.2.1 through 107.2.5. Section 107.2.
Construction drawings shall be of sufficient clarity to indicate the location, nature and extent of work proposed and to show in detail that it will conform to the provisions of this code and relevant laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, as determined by the building official. Section 107.2.1. That means that any/all code sections that affect the proposed construction need to be addressed and all level of detail required to demonstrate compliance with each such code section shall be included in the construction drawings and submittal documents.
Further clarification can be found in Sections 1603, 1605, 1608, 1609 and 1613.
Construction documents shall be in accordance with Sections 107.2.1 through 107.2.5. Section 107.2.
Construction drawings shall be of sufficient clarity to indicate the location, nature and extent of work proposed and to show in detail that it will conform to the provisions of this code and relevant laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, as determined by the building official. Section 107.2.1. That means that any/all code sections that affect the proposed construction need to be addressed and all level of detail required to demonstrate compliance with each such code section shall be included in the construction drawings and submittal documents.
Further clarification can be found in Sections 1603, 1605, 1608, 1609 and 1613.
Well, what I found was this. I looked at our archives and several years ago this same building owner, using the same architect designed another mezzanine in another portion of the building. That mezzanine portion was signed and sealed by a structural engineer and attached to the architects set of drawings for the space. Those structural engineers previous drawings included 2 more pages of details and calcs. In fact, the included notes on this new mezzanine, by the architect this time, are fairly identical to the other previous set but again missing 2 sheets of details and calcs. Now, here in Illinois, an architect IS allowed to submit structural drawings and calcs. I guess one can say that immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I just wish he'd copied it more closely.
. The notes are actually so identical that the height of the previous mezzanine was copied as top of deck for the design criteria but the new mezzanine section shows this to be different by 8 inches.
I feel sick. Anybody know about copyright laws?
. The notes are actually so identical that the height of the previous mezzanine was copied as top of deck for the design criteria but the new mezzanine section shows this to be different by 8 inches.
I feel sick. Anybody know about copyright laws?
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mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
He told what is required
1603.1.6 Geotechnical information.
The design load-bearing values of soils shall be shown on the construction documents .
1704.7 Soils.
Special inspections for existing site soil conditions, fill placement and load-bearing requirements shall be as required by this section and Table 1704.7. The approved geotechnical report, and the construction documents prepared by the registered design professionals shall be used to determine compliance. During fill placement, the special inspector shall determine that proper materials and procedures are used in accordance with the provisions of the approved geotechnical report.
Now ask him to provide the copy of the report. No report, no permit
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Still need a foundation design, Not a typical slab, think punch through....mtlogcabin said:
Agreed, it is the function of the structural engineer to analyze the existing concrete slab, soil placement reports and the like to see if the structure in place is adequate to resist the loads imposed by the design currently proposed. As previously stated it is the design team that is charged with providing adequate documentation to demonstrate code compliance. If they cannot demonstrate that the exisiting concrete slab can properly support the loads, then additional footings or foundations are required.
Phil
Registered User
What occupancy or use has a 15 psf live load? A catwalk is 40 psf.
Builder Bob
Sawhorse
Plans approved for construction beginning at 12" above finished floor.
This is one of the approval notes that was sent out for a mezzanine..... when the contractor came in to pick up the permit (from out of town), I asked him if he had ever made a floating mezzanine...
I then informed him that they (design build project), had wasted my three weeks by using a permit expediter service who called every day to check status, After they (refused to respond or address plan review comments), political heat required an approval of some sort (so said the boss),
With the information presented, a conditional approval was given for a mezzanine to be constructed starting at 12" AFF.
This is one of the approval notes that was sent out for a mezzanine..... when the contractor came in to pick up the permit (from out of town), I asked him if he had ever made a floating mezzanine...
I then informed him that they (design build project), had wasted my three weeks by using a permit expediter service who called every day to check status, After they (refused to respond or address plan review comments), political heat required an approval of some sort (so said the boss),
With the information presented, a conditional approval was given for a mezzanine to be constructed starting at 12" AFF.
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Paul Sweet
Sawhorse
I wonder if the owner didn't pay the architect for structural work, because he said he would to build it like the previous mezzanine, and the architect put on the note for the owner to verify slab and soil bearing capacity to cover his fanny.
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Not uncommon for the owner not wanting to pay the architect for structural work or any work.....But the OP did not say Architect....Paul Sweet said: