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Sub Panel in Garage and disconnect

jar546

jar546

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I recently got a call from an electrician who failed an inspection with another inspector. He does not understand why the inspector is requiring that the sub panel in the detached garage that he just put in must have a main disconnect when it is fed from an OCPD in the main panel in the house. The inspector stated that there are more than 6 breakers in the panel and since it is a separate building, it gets treated as a service.

What am I missing here? Never heard of that. I don't see how 230 applies.
 
Oh yeah. The official is citing 225.33

I believe, however that this is already covered by the fact that the disconnect is present in the main panel of the house. I don't see where this applies for separate structures.
 
Sounds as though 225.32, Exc. # 1 applies (2008 NEC).

On another topic, have you re-visted your OP on the "Gas Range In the

Kitchen" lately?

Some good input there! Was this another one of your (infamous) training

topics? :D

.
 
globe trekker said:
Sounds as though 225.32, Exc. # 1 applies (2008 NEC).On another topic, have you re-visted your OP on the "Gas Range In the

Kitchen" lately?

Some good input there! Was this another one of your (infamous) training

topics? :D

.
Click to expand...
A typical homeowner is not a qualified individual. Proof is that they had to hire an electrician to do the work. Exception 1 does not apply.
 
Look at 225.32 & 225.36

225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building orstructure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements

in 230.6 shall be utilized.
Click to expand...
225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap
Click to expand...
 
Jeff.....why wouldn't 225.32 Ex 1 Apply at a SFD? The homeowner has control of his/her own disconnect(s)...they can throw their own main, why not the garage?
 
steveray said:
Jeff.....why wouldn't 225.32 Ex 1 Apply at a SFD? The homeowner has control of his/her own disconnect(s)...they can throw their own main, why not the garage?
Click to expand...
The home owner or whom ever is monitoring the premise would need to be a qualified individual.

225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be utilized.

Exception No. 1: For installations under single management, where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection, and where the installation is monitored by qualified individuals, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.
 
steveray said:
Jeff.....why wouldn't 225.32 Ex 1 Apply at a SFD? The homeowner has control of his/her own disconnect(s)...they can throw their own main, why not the garage?
Click to expand...
They are not qualified individuals. That is designed for a building maintained by qualified individuals such as a factory with a qualified, trained maintenance staff. Also, it needs to be written
 
O.K., ..so I'm still chewing on this one. Since a main disco is required in the detached

garage, is it because there are more than 6 breakers in the new panel? What if there

are only 6 breakers installed with blank spaces left in the panel? Also, is the

applicable code section in the IRC, Section E3501.5, 2006 IRC?

Thanks for ya`lls indulgence! :)

.
 
globe trekker said:
O.K., ..so I'm still chewing on this one. Since a main disco is required in the detachedgarage, is it because there are more than 6 breakers in the new panel? What if there

are only 6 breakers installed with blank spaces left in the panel? Also, is the

applicable code section in the IRC, Section E3501.5, 2006 IRC?

Thanks for ya`lls indulgence! :)

.
Click to expand...
If there are only 6 breakers at the panel in the detached garage then you don't need a main breaker even if there are spares. However, the panel must be suitable for service equipment. Not all main lug panels are suitable as service disconnects.
 
Gregg Harris said:
The home owner or whom ever is monitoring the premise would need to be a qualified individual.225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be utilized.

Exception No. 1: For installations under single management, where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection, and where the installation is monitored by qualified individuals, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.
Click to expand...
OH NO! Not the housewife again! You must be #2.
 
jar546 said:
They are not qualified individuals. That is designed for a building maintained by qualified individuals such as a factory with a qualified, trained maintenance staff. Also, it needs to be written
Click to expand...
So If they are willing to hire a janitor with a tool belt they can say the home is managed by a qualified person? ;)

I understand this is code and I will hold my nose and enforce it but the chance of a homeowner tripping the breaker on the load side of the feeder before he works on the wiring is exactly the same as him tripping it on the line side.
 
This came up in CT many years ago and the state made an interpretation that if the panel is capable of more than 6 CB's then section 225.32 applies, even if they only installed 1 CB in an 8 or 12 space panel.
 
Personally I think NFPA should remove the exception or extend it to single family dwellings.

There is no logical reason to have both rules. It is a lot more likely that the commercial installation might be broken up into separate tenants or that they lay off the "qualified person", than that a homeowner would not have the breaker on the feeder available to a qualified worker who needed to shut down the power.

After all, what is the purpose of the disconnect?
 
However, the panel must be suitable for service equipment. Not all main lug panels are suitable as service disconnects.
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Please explain and a code reference would be good also! I am asking because, sometimes

when we ask for information, we start getting the telephone calls saying that we are being

obstructionistic, ..slowing up the permitting process, etc., etc.

How are we dumb `ol inspectors going to determine compliance on the panel

you mentioned, or rather, how would you & others do it to achieve compliance?

Also, suppose the detached garage / bldg. is only 10 ft. away from the main ext. panel?

Still more than 6 breakers installed.. Here, we DO occasionally get the detached

structures that are located very close to the main residence.

.
 
the electrician should look at the installation. if there is a disco aout side at the meter, and it's fed from another ocpd in the house (ocpd in "main panel") he's code compliant.
 
As inspectors and electricians, we need to ask ourselves one question when we are making a code based decision:

"Can I properly defend the decision I made in a court of law?"
 
jar546 said:
As inspectors and electricians, we need to ask ourselves one question when we are making a code based decision:"Can I properly defend the decision I made in a court of law?"
Click to expand...
Yep, I've been on the witness stand a few times. The first time I was impressed by how those attorneys do their darndest to make you look stupid. Just like on tv!

BS
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Can I properly defend the decision I made in a court of law?"
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I agree with that premise Jeff, but every jurisdiction is different. Here, we tend to jump to the

beat of the (very common) statement "the homewoner doesn't want to add that expense

to the project".

If there is a compliant means to disconnect all conductors, at the main ext. panel (a

compliant OCPD for the feeder to the detached bldg.) , is the disco at the detached bldg.

really necessary, or is this another redundant (perceived) safety measure?

.
 
globe trekker said:
Please explain and a code reference would be good also! I am asking because, sometimeswhen we ask for information, we start getting the telephone calls saying that we are being

obstructionistic, ..slowing up the permitting process, etc., etc.
Click to expand...
Look at 225.36 and then look at the main lug panels. Almost all that I have seen say suitable for service equipment when a main breaker kit is installed. I guess this avoids people putting in more than 6 breakers.

There are few panels that are straight 6 circuit but rather they are 12/24 spaces. This means you could have 6 dp breakers in the panel or some combo. I am not sure how you can design a panel that cannot be added at a later date. The state of Connecticut may have ruled on it but the NEC does not state that the panel cannot have spares. The person that adds to it is in violation
 
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