• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Swipe card building access

well we sometimes get a new building plan for review.

as part of the plan submital they show symbols for locking doors or card readers.

Once again we require a seperate submital for any door security
 
A couple other things to watch out for when you're reviewing these applications -

Electric latch retraction exit devices on fire-rated doors need to have a fire alarm contact in the power supply so that the latches project upon fire alarm.

Electromagnetic locks either have to have a motion sensor, push button, fire alarm release, and unlock on power failure, or must be released by a switch in the door-mounted hardware (lockset, touch-sense bar, or exit device). This has changed recently and I had a blog post about it:

http://idighardware.com/2012/03/decoded-ibc-electromagnetically-locked-egress-doors/

Also beware of people who want to lock a door in the direction of egress and only want it to unlock via card reader or fire alarm. To control egress, they should be using delayed egress hardware if it's allowed for the occupancy type, or an alarm which is shunted when someone swipes their card upon exiting.

And another thing...stair doors with card readers should have fail safe locks or fail safe exit device trim - NOT a fail safe electric strike. Fail safe products are needed for stairwell reentry, but a fail safe strike can't be used on a fire door.
 
LGreene said:
.....And another thing...stair doors with card readers should have fail safe locks or fail safe exit device trim - NOT a fail safe electric strike. Fail safe products are needed for stairwell reentry, but a fail safe strike can't be used on a fire door.
Click to expand...
......Lori, Could you clarify this statement?

I currently have a contractor installing electric strikes in my town hall (without a permit of course) for 1hr rated corridor double doors with vert rod panics...Are you just referring to the fail safe not meeting hose stream in a rated situation?

Is there any clarification on the hole size besides this: 4.1.3.4 The holes described in 4.1.3.3 shall not be permitted to exceed a diameter of 1 in. (25.4 mm) with the exception of cylinders.

Are we supposed to figure out the are of a 1" circle and translate to a square hole?

They are using an HES "surface mounted" selectable electric strike for safe or secure....Thanks!
 
Fail safe products are unlocked when power is removed. Power is applied to lock the door.

Fail secure products are locked when power is removed. Power is applied to unlock the door.
 
Ohhh.....and BTW looks like they cut out about 1" by 6".....

Thanks CDA....I got the terminology, I just didn't get the way Lori presented that one piece...halfway through typing I realized it was the hose stream or "fire latching" aspect that would not allow it to release on a rated door....
 
steveray said:
......I currently have a contractor installing electric strikes in my town hall (without a permit of course) for 1hr rated corridor double doors with vert rod panics...Are you just referring to the fail safe not meeting hose stream in a rated situation?

Is there any clarification on the hole size besides this: 4.1.3.4 The holes described in 4.1.3.3 shall not be permitted to exceed a diameter of 1 in. (25.4 mm) with the exception of cylinders.

Are we supposed to figure out the area of a 1" circle and translate to a square hole?

They are using an HES "surface mounted" selectable electric strike for safe or secure....Thanks!
Click to expand...
Electric strikes on fire doors have to be fail secure because of the positive-latching requirement. A fail safe electric strike could allow the latchbolt to be pulled/pushed through the strike keeper during a fire, and are not listed for use on a fire door. Since stairwell doors are fire rated and also must typically allow stairwell reentry, you need a fail safe lock or fail safe fire exit hardware, not a fail safe electric strike.

In your case, it doesn't sound like you have the stairwell reentry issue, so the strike can be fail secure and meet the positive latching requirement. BUT...if the pair has vertical rod fire exit hardware with both top and bottom rods and latches, the bottom rod and latch would have to be removed so that the strike can release the top latch. Some brands of fire exit hardware do offer a "less bottom rod" (LBR) version, but most require an auxiliary pin to be installed near the bottom of the door on the edge. This pin does not project until there is a fire. Also, the door manufacturer should be contacted to make sure that the door is listed for use with an LBR device. Taking off the bottom rods and latches without changing to an LBR device will void the label of the assembly.

Here is some information on LBR devices on fire doors: http://idighardware.com/2012/07/decoded-less-bottom-rod-fire-exit-hardware/

Here's another article about electric strikes on fire doors: http://idighardware.com/2012/06/electric-strikes-on-fire-doors/

And one on stairwell reentry: http://idighardware.com/2011/08/stairwell-reentry-myths-and-facts/

The NFPA 80 section addressing field modification of fire doors is typically interpreted to mean round holes up to 1" diameter (cylinder holes may be any size). It is not typically applied to holes of other shape, although you could make that determination as the AHJ.

Here are the other paragraphs from NFPA 80 on job site preparations - one says "drilling round holes":

4.1.3.2 For job site preparation of surface-applied hardware, function holes for mortise locks, and holes for labeled viewers, a maximum 3⁄4 in. (19 mm) wood and composite door undercutting, and protection plates (see 6.4.5) shall be permitted.

4.1.3.3 Surface-applied hardware shall be applied to the door or frame without removing material other than drilling round holes to accommodate cylinders, spindles, similar operational elements, and through-bolts in doors.

4.1.3.4 The holes described in 4.1.3.3 shall not be permitted to exceed a diameter of 1 in. (25.4 mm), with the exception of cylinders.
 
In addition to the field modification being larger than what is allowed by NFPA 80, and the removal of the bottom rod and latch, there shouldn't be a visible hole in the frame. At this point it's a matter of how comfortable you are allowing this modification. Will the fire door assembly perform properly if there's a fire? Maybe. Maybe there will never be a fire. Maybe the building will be unoccupied if there is a fire, and this door won't be as important. I just don't know where to draw the line, so I like to stick with the letter of the code. Otherwise you start heading down a slippery slope.

What do you think? Go with "it probably won't matter", or "I'm not comfortable with the liability"? I'd love to hear from any AHJs regarding your perspective on this issue in general.
 
does not look pretty

is this an exterior door or an door on the interior portion of the building??

and yes if rated, looks like lost its listing.

More than likley would not allow it in any other building and should not allow it in a city building
 
pass cards can be a problem if doors are required to be accessible:

2009 ANSI 309.4 Operation. Operable parts shall be operable with one hand and shall not require tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist. The force required to activate operable parts shall be 5.0 pounds (22.2 N) maximum.

How do use use a card without tight grasping? Can you use the card and open the door with one hand?
 
I am not comfortable with it at all, I am going to have to speak with my FM and get his take as well....I believe it is just a 1 hour corridor, but he would have better historic knowledge than I. What about the door? Should the door have visible holes in it? :)



LGreene said:
In addition to the field modification being larger than what is allowed by NFPA 80, and the removal of the bottom rod and latch, there shouldn't be a visible hole in the frame. At this point it's a matter of how comfortable you are allowing this modification. Will the fire door assembly perform properly if there's a fire? Maybe. Maybe there will never be a fire. Maybe the building will be unoccupied if there is a fire, and this door won't be as important. I just don't know where to draw the line, so I like to stick with the letter of the code. Otherwise you start heading down a slippery slope. What do you think? Go with "it probably won't matter", or "I'm not comfortable with the liability"? I'd love to hear from any AHJs regarding your perspective on this issue in general.
Click to expand...
 
This contractors work is totally unacceptable and if it were my job I would ask him to leave the premises...

The electric strike may be "useable" for this application but is not the best fit and the install is horrible.

This is a fire rated strike as you can see from the label but note the area to the right of the keeper in the pic. Apparently there was some collision with the top latch trigger etc. and you can clearly see where someone took a hand grinder and cut a slot in the strike face plate to get it to work.
 
It doesn't matter how acceptable the contractor's work is. Us newbie door inspector's(12/13-IFDIA) "was learned" that a labeled door company (WH,etc.)would only be allowed to modify a fire frame and that would technically have to be done under controlled "lab" conditions i.e. in the shop. Even though this an everyday event it don't make it right! Furthermore, the door company would place their label(WH,etc.)on the frame and "own the job" for life. Flame away!
 
Ronald Bets said:
It doesn't matter how acceptable the contractor's work is. Us newbie door inspector's(12/13-IFDIA) "was learned" that a labeled door company (WH,etc.)would only be allowed to modify a fire frame and that would technically have to be done under controlled "lab" conditions i.e. in the shop. Even though this an everyday event it don't make it right! Furthermore, the door company would place their label(WH,etc.)on the frame and "own the job" for life. Flame away!
Click to expand...
Some Field modifications are allowed
 
Ronald Bets said:
It doesn't matter how acceptable the contractor's work is. Us newbie door inspector's(12/13-IFDIA) "was learned" that a labeled door company (WH,etc.)would only be allowed to modify a fire frame and that would technically have to be done under controlled "lab" conditions i.e. in the shop. Even though this an everyday event it don't make it right! Furthermore, the door company would place their label(WH,etc.)on the frame and "own the job" for life. Flame away!
Click to expand...
Can existing fire doors be modified for new hardware?

Field modifications are limited by NFPA 80 to jobsite preparation for:

● surface-applied hardware;

● function holes for mortise locks;

● holes for labeled viewers;

● protection plates; and

● a maximum 19-mm (¾-in.) wood and composite door undercutting.

Holes drilled in the field are limited to 25-mm (1-in.) diameter, with the exception of cylinder holes that can be any size. For other modifications not specifically addressed by NFPA 80, the listing agency may be contacted through the door/frame manufacturer to request permission to perform a specific modification in the field. Another option would be to transport the existing doors to an approved facility to modify them, attach new labels, and then reinstall the doors. Fire door assemblies can also be inspected and relabeled in the field by the listing agency if acceptable, but this process can be very costly.

http://idighardware.com/2013/10/fire-doors-everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-but-were-afraid-to-ask/
 
Rick18071 said:
pass cards can be a problem if doors are required to be accessible:2009 ANSI 309.4 Operation. Operable parts shall be operable with one hand and shall not require tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist. The force required to activate operable parts shall be 5.0 pounds (22.2 N) maximum.

How do use use a card without tight grasping? Can you use the card and open the door with one hand?
Click to expand...
In my experience, cards are treated like keys...they're not addressed by the accessibility standards because they are not a permanent part of the door. If a card is not acceptable for a door on an accessible route, a key would not be acceptable either. My preference is proximity cards or fobs, which do not require insertion into the reader.
 
Sort of kills the need to have fire rated frames if you have every Tom, Dick and Jane carving them up. Why have WH field repair labels and certification?
 
Ronald Bets said:
Sort of kills the need to have fire rated frames if you have every Tom, Dick and Jane carving them up. Why have WH field repair labels and certification?
Click to expand...
Theoretically having the doors and frames re-labeled after field modification would ensure that they still met the requirements of a fire door assembly. There are a lot of good installers and sometimes field modifications are necessary.
 
There may be some confusion about what is acceptable to modifications to labeled doors and frames. In Lauri's citing of NFPA 80 sections 4.1.3.2, 4.1.3.3, and 4.1.3.4 The 1" hole that is referred to in 4.1.3.4 if referring to 4.1.3.3 in the application of rim applied hardware. Cutting an electric strike in the frame where material must be removed is not acceptable and must be performed under label service conditions before the frame is installed. The doors are manufactured is such a fashion that cutting holes for application of trim is acceptable because the door is reinforced and blocked internally to allow this procedure and the frame is not.

Here are the other paragraphs from NFPA 80 on job site preparations - one says "drilling round holes":

4.1.3.2 For job site preparation of surface-applied hardware, function holes for mortise locks, and holes for labeled viewers, a maximum 3⁄4 in. (19 mm) wood and composite door undercutting, and protection plates (see 6.4.5) shall be permitted.

4.1.3.3 Surface-applied hardware shall be applied to the door or frame without removing material other than drilling round holes to accommodate cylinders, spindles, similar operational elements, and through-bolts in doors.

4.1.3.4 The holes described in 4.1.3.3 shall not be permitted to exceed a diameter of 1 in. (25.4 mm), with the exception of cylinders.
 
Tresciniti said:
There may be some confusion about what is acceptable to modifications to labeled doors and frames. In Lauri's citing of NFPA 80 sections 4.1.3.2, 4.1.3.3, and 4.1.3.4 The 1" hole that is referred to in 4.1.3.4 if referring to 4.1.3.3 in the application of rim applied hardware. Cutting an electric strike in the frame where material must be removed is not acceptable and must be performed under label service conditions before the frame is installed. The doors are manufactured is such a fashion that cutting holes for application of trim is acceptable because the door is reinforced and blocked internally to allow this procedure and the frame is not. Here are the other paragraphs from NFPA 80 on job site preparations - one says "drilling round holes":

4.1.3.2 For job site preparation of surface-applied hardware, function holes for mortise locks, and holes for labeled viewers, a maximum 3⁄4 in. (19 mm) wood and composite door undercutting, and protection plates (see 6.4.5) shall be permitted.

4.1.3.3 Surface-applied hardware shall be applied to the door or frame without removing material other than drilling round holes to accommodate cylinders, spindles, similar operational elements, and through-bolts in doors.

4.1.3.4 The holes described in 4.1.3.3 shall not be permitted to exceed a diameter of 1 in. (25.4 mm), with the exception of cylinders.
Click to expand...
Welcome

How did you find us

Keep bringing your knowledge
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top