Tattle Tale

[fireguy]

I have problems with some sprinkler and alarm deficiencies. I have noted the problems in my service reports, that were sent to the customer.

1. Leaking backflow, & antifreeze system plumbed so each time we test the flow, we loose antifreeze solution. The installer keeps saying all backflow devices leak. They do not have provision for a forward flow test, and no room to add provions for a forward flow test. Designed & built under 13-2007. Inspected and passed inspection.

2. An alarm system that does not unlock an exit path. Upgraded with new panel under 72-2007 in 2008. Inspection by State FM. Report sent to State FM, April 2009. The system has not been inspected by a contractor since our inspection of Feb 2009.

3. A secure drug and alcohol treatment for women and children that has no provision for a forward flow test. This has not passed the final inspection yet. Designed and built under 13-2007

4. A motel with a Cummins to power a generator that powers an electric fire pump that makes lots of noise. I do not think the pump will run long enough to control a fire in hte motel. The engine and pump are in a separate building, w/o heats, the tampers are not monitered by the FACP in the motel. Corporate is trying to find someone cheap to work on the pump. (Meaning they are too cheap to repair the pump) But they did pay to have the Cummins fixed and the mother board in the pump panel replaced. Corporate did not make those decisions, the motel manager did.

I am not wanting to be a tattle tale, but these places need to be to code. I do not even care if we do the work, as just so it is done and done to NFPA code. I may drop these accounts, unless I get fired first. We stay busy enough with those who want a good job, to deal with those who want crap work.

I have no problem sending letters to the local FM and State FM, but I do not want to appear to be a tattle tale. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do you FMs take reports seriously and act upon them or just roll your eyes and junk them? Am I wasting my time?

Sometimes I think my goal in life is to be an troublemaker like ICE and Brudgers.

 

[permitguy]

We do take them seriously and act upon them. We have been trying to encourage contractors to contact us when they have unresolved maintenance issues, but most of them hesitate out of fear of losing the account. They usually write up what they see, quickly breeze through their findings with the owner (if at all), then hope we'll be along to force the issue at some point in the near future through our compliance inspection process. We've discussed the possibility of requiring all reports to be forwarded to our office, but we don't have the resources to deal with that kind of volume.

We do work with owners on a timeline for compliance depending on the nature of the problem.

 

[FM William Burns]

Do you FMs take reports seriously and act upon them or just roll your eyes and junk them? Am I wasting my time?

We do also and in addition we enforce the maintenance provisions of 11, 12, 12A , 13, 13D, 13R, 17, 17A, 20, 25, 72 and 2001 through our vehicle 101 and referenced reports/maintenance sections of the referenced documents of the adopted fire prevention code. We require alarm and fire protection service providers to copy us on all inspection/service reports for facilities in our jurisdiction or as some providers do; provisions to our FD for access to customer report records on their on-line records for annual maintenance and service reporting system. We will follow up and generate an electronic inspection report copied to the facility and inspection firm for their records and generate follow updated status reports as necessary. We had issues in the past where service providers worried about loosing accounts so we met with the Business and Industry associations back in the early 90's to explain that companies regardless of who they are are required by the adopted fire code to provide reports to the AHJ for their records and notification. IFC 901.6.2 also requires facilities or service providers to copy the fire code official depending how one wants to hold responsible who gives us the reports. Once the business community realizes that these systems are required to be maintained and repaired as necessary based on the applicable adopted code and referenced document editions (i.e. newer forward flow requirements etc) and that those reports must be geterated to the jurisdiction for their records; the field of play for all is better enhanced. The liability discussion has also been historically used by us in our discussions with facilities.

 

[cda]

Somewhat luckily in my state, fire protection companies are required to report problems to the local ahj, but not all companies do report

We do drop a notice on the owner to fix it

The state and city require annual inspections of systems, and we check annually to see that they were done, and correct any problems found

 

[beach]

What PG and FM said....

 

[fireguy]

Thank you, letters and copies of the inspeciton reports go out next week. And, when my clients get written up for something we missed, I ask for the inspectors report so I know what we need to fix. After repairs are made, I send a copy of the report back to the AHJ, with our repairs noted.

 

[tbz]

Firguy,

I have been out of the FACP & sprinkler monitoring industry since 95, but even back then we always sent copies of annual inspections (pass or fail) on to the local FI/FM office listing what corrections were made or need to be made.

None ever complained and if it is your S.O.P. weather the AHJ requires it or not, you will only loose those clients that are just going to cause you problems anyway.

 

[permitguy]

The problem in our area is thousands of systems and dozens of local service providers. It's extremely competitive in this market, and there are plenty of hacks willing to perform less than quality work for half of a good providers price.

I received sprinkler test reports for a 16 building apartment complex this morning. They look like a kindergartner filled them out, and that might be an insult to the kindergartners. They were hand-written on a form that's been copied so many times you can barely read the typewritten questions. Every one has a comment that says "Antifreeze levels are too high, dangerous and proven to be flammable". That's it. No details on the actual concentrations, type of antifreeze, freeze protection levels, etc. It's no wonder the apartment manager probably hasn't taken this seriously. Now I get to try and gather the complete information I should already have. I can already envision the finger-pointing I'm going to see.

 

[north star]

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Heck yes, tattle tale on them!......Document, ...document, ...document

and send them all to the AHJ......If the AHJ chooses to not enforce

their own codes / ordinances, you will have at least tried......Also,

if you have a good rapport with the FI/FM, give them a call and get

their input!

FWIW, these systems are supposed to be protecting peoples lives.

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