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Temporary Assembly Occupancy: Can it be done?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CFD937
  • Start date Start date
C

CFD937

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We have been approached by a church wanting to have a one time "Religious Worship" (A-3) Meeting/Service in an old building here. The building used to be (F-1,Textiles) occupancy but has been closed down for several years. there is an old sprinkler system, but it has been shut down since the plant closed.

The 2012 IBC 903.2.1.3 states: An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-3 occupancies where one of the following conditions exist:

1-the fire is over 12,000 sq. ft.;

2-the fire area occupancy is 300 people or more;

3-the fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies.

Are there any exceptions for a temporary occupancy which would last 4-6 hours. I can get our Fire, EMS, and Police and more from surrounding jurisdictions too. I need to be able to justify with applicable code sections.

Thanks in advance!!
 
How many people?

How much do you charge for a Fire Marshal fire watch ??

Exiting ok?

Why the event ??? Church service ,,wedding ,,, church annivesary, revival???
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@ ~ @



CFD937,

Let's start with some basics.

Are the `12 I-codes the applicable codes being used for reference ?

Have you reviewed Section 403 - Public Assemblages and Events,

and Section 404 - Fire Safety and Evacuation Plans, in the `12 IFC ?

Have you a realistic number of persons that will attend your event ?

What are your plans for complying with the overall ADA Standards ?

What are your plans for restrooms ?..............Have you got a written

Scope of this project with which to discuss with the AHJ BO & FCO ?

Do you have funding available to hire trained Fire personnel to serve

as Fire Watches in lieu of an active sprinkler system ?

Thanks !

@ ~ @
 
I can go allow it or not.

If allowing it, would be with provisions.

The thing you have to watch is, well you allowed the building to be used for this assembly, why can't I use it for similar purpose ??

Yes I have seen non assembly places used for assembly purposes
 
cda said:
I can go allow it or not.If allowing it, would be with provisions.

The thing you have to watch is, well you allowed the building to be used for this assembly, why can't I use it for similar purpose ??

Yes I have seen non assembly places used for assembly purposes
Click to expand...
exactly

The thing you have to watch is, well you allowed the building to be used for this assembly, why can't I use it for similar purpose ??
 
For special events in coordination with the Fire Marshal's Office we've allowed a designated number of Fire Watch Personnel (sometimes the paid services of off-duty Fire Fighters) in unsprinklered building, including limiting the number of people inside to 299.

2012 IEBC

SECTION 107 TEMPORARY STRUCTURES AND USES

[A] 107.1 General.

The code official is authorized to issue a permit for temporary uses. Such permits shall be limited as to time of service but shall not be permitted for more than 180 days. The code official is authorized to grant extensions for demonstrated cause.

[A] 107.2 Conformance.

Temporary uses shall conform to the structural strength, fire safety, means of egress, accessibility, light, ventilation and sanitary requirements of this code as necessary to ensure the public health, safety and general welfare.

[A] 107.3 Temporary power.

The code official is authorized to give permission to temporarily supply and use power in part of an electric installation before such installation has been fully completed and the final certificate of completion has been issued. The part covered by the temporary certificate shall comply with the requirements specified for temporary lighting, heat or power in NFPA 70.

[A] 107.4 Termination of approval.

The code official is authorized to terminate such permit for a temporary use and to order the temporary use to be discontinued.
 
I would look at the 2012 sections that Northstar posted, I have no clean way to do it here, so I ignore it and let the FM do what he feels is right...
 
Sorry about the numbers.

They plan on 2500-3000 people.

The main area is approx. 80,000 sq. ft.

Tables and chairs = 15 sq. ft. per person

Minimum of 7 exits, plus 5 dock doors if needed.

Kind of like a revival, but mostly the men attend. It's a outdoorsman type scenario.
 
Thanks for the info North Star!!!

I've been in the IBC, NFPA 101 LSC, but hadn't got into the IFC, yet.

they plan of between 2500-3000 people. Got porta-pottys for the restrooms, even ADA Accessible ones. Don't have a written plan, but I can get one. We have availability for 5 Engines, 3 ladders, 3 tankers, 2-3 EMS Ambulances, and 1-2 Rescue trucks.

My issue is I don't want fingers pointing at me if something happens, GOD forbid.

Thanks a bunch!!!
 
$ = = >

CFD937,

With the basic information & code sections that have

been provided so far, ...IMO, include this in your written

Proposal..........Now, if you haven't already, contact the

FCO & the BO and schedule an "In Person" meeting to

see if they are even willing to allow this proposed event.

Some variables the we [ on the Forum ] do not know:

(1) What is the overall condition of the structure,

...(2) Do you have sufficient funding to make this event,

happen, ...(3) If the answer is "No way Jose" to your

proposal, ...do you have a Plan B location in mind,

...(4) because everything seems to be political these

days, ...are there plans to invite the current

"powers-that-be" of the applicable AHJ, ...(5) as a

CYA Check, do you have someone competent reviewing

your full ADA plans [ i.e. - Parking, ...Accessibility

ingress in to & egress out of the structure, ...seating,

etc., etc. ],

It sounds as though you have the Fire, Police & EMS

services well in hand.

First and foremost, ...you're on the "right track" by

coming to this "most excellent Forum" ........There are

a lot of very good people here that are willing to help

you...........Please consider supporting this Forum !

Also, ...please come back more often and contribute ! :cool:





< = = $
 
CFD937 said:
Thanks for the info North Star!!!I've been in the IBC, NFPA 101 LSC, but hadn't got into the IFC, yet.

they plan of between 2500-3000 people. Got porta-pottys for the restrooms, even ADA Accessible ones. Don't have a written plan, but I can get one. We have availability for 5 Engines, 3 ladders, 3 tankers, 2-3 EMS Ambulances, and 1-2 Rescue trucks.

My issue is I don't want fingers pointing at me if something happens, GOD forbid.

Thanks a bunch!!!
Click to expand...
That's a lot

What are they going to be doing??

Your problem, unless those crews are extra, you cannot count on them.

But you should have stand by people.

So make the church pay for off duty people to be there.

Plus police on top of that.

I think my first thing to look at is what kind of exiting does the building have.

Is there a good size main exit.

Is there additional exits that can handle fifty per cent of the people.

Are they seperated a good distance from each other.

Sounds like you need to get a game plan for this.
 
I have had a few interactions with churches. So far they have all tried to get away with breaking the rules. If they like the "one time" event they will want more. And since God is on their side, you're screwed.
 
@3000 people in an old abandoned factory/warehouse for an "outdoorsman" type event? Draw down raffle and alcohol served? As a CFO I would be real concerned and need way more detail to even consider permitting it. Can the sprinkler system get a NFPA 25 inspection and service maintenance?
 
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