The term "within" occupancies

[Glennman CBO]

2009 IBC section 1013.3 exc.#5 "In areas that are not open to the public "within" occupancies in...F...shall not have openings that allow the passage of sphere 21" in diameter.

Does this exception only apply to "within" the building, or can they have this 21" opening on a stair or ramp that is on the outside of the building, yet is not open to the public.

I find the term "within" quite a few times in the code, and it would appear with the usage that it indeed applies to the inside of the building. Especially under doors "within" dwelling units in R-2 and R-3, vs doors that "serve" the unit in section 1008.1.2 exception # 4. The term here "within" obviously applies to the interior of the dwelling unit (this is only an example).

Any thoughts?

 

[north star]

$ $ $

Glennman,



IMO, the "outside" stairs or ramp are still part of the "within occupancy",

[ part of the exit ], until it reaches the exit discharge area or the public

way.

$ $ $

 

[fatboy]

I agree with NS, outside of the building is still part of the occupancy, si I would consider it "within".

 

[Fritz]

For a moment let's consider guardrail height within an apartment unit, 36", patio deck 42". I believe there was a so called "official" call on this some time ago.

I tend to look at it from the point of who has control of it, whether the public could get access to it.

In a secured storage yard, that would be within, a side entrance for employees, probably not, back lumber yard at Menards, no.

Fritz

 

[Glennman CBO]

Granted, the egress path to the publc way is the issue, and a plan review conducted with regard to occupancy includes the exterior components of the building.

It comes down to what is considered "accessible to the public". If a stair case is on the exterior of the building on an F-1 occupancy and is not enclosed by fences or what have you, then isn't that stair case accessible to the public, even if the public is not encouraged to use the staircase? I would say in this case that the guards would need to have the 4" max openings, etc. However, if the area is blocked off from public, such as by fences, etc, and the staircase is on the exterior of the building, then they can have the 21" openings. Agreed?

 

[north star]

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Glennman CBO,

In your listed IBC code [ 2009 Edition ] section, shouldn't that be Section

1013.3, Exception #4?

According to the letter of the Exception #4, you would not have to have

fences, barriers, etc. for the stairway(s) to NOT be open to the public.

A permanently installed sign COULD possibly achieve the results of

"non-public stairway / areas", ...yes? And thus, requiring only the

limitation of a 21" sphere between the openings. OSHA or the

insurance carrier may have other more stringent requirements though!

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[Glennman CBO]

Northstar...ooops, exc.#4.