This a 2-story High Rise?

[Francis Vineyard]

A proposed concept building that will require 3 enclosed means of egress stairs and 2 elevators to connect all floor levels. Enclosed commercial parking at the lowest level, next level up is residential parking to be below a commercial retail level under the top 3 levels of residential apartments.

 

[jar546]

How are they going to meet the footer to slope requirements?

 

[Frank]

How are they looking at height and area?

Can easily be solved with a firewall.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Is it a High Rise?

 

[jar546]

No, it is not a high rise unless the FD does not have access beyond the 1st level.

 

[Frank]

Is it a High Rise?

Given the 75ft 5 inches from the lowest level of FD access to top occupied floor it does meet the technical definition of a high rise building.

"HIGH-RISE BUILDING. A building with an occupied floor located more than 75 feet (22 860 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access. "

If the architect wants to take advantage of the highrise provisions they could. High rise can be avoided with a fire wall.

I would think a modification to consider not a highrise as all parts of the roof are ladderable and exit travel in any stair is short would be in order.

 

[cda]

Given the 75ft 5 inches from the lowest level of FD access to top occupied floor it does meet the technical definition of a high rise building. "HIGH-RISE BUILDING. A building with an occupied floor located more than 75 feet (22 860 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access. "

If the architect wants to take advantage of the highrise provisions they could. High rise can be avoided with a fire wall.

I would think a modification to consider not a highrise as all parts of the roof are ladderable and exit travel in any stair is short would be in order.

it appears there is fd access from the bottom to the top "sloping road"

 

[mtlogcabin]

High-Rise can be avoided by limiting the FD vehicle access

Or simple common sense that this design does not create the hazards associated with a High-Rise building

 

[Francis Vineyard]

The illustration below as in the previous illustration has the lowest FD access level 75' 5" below the top floor but the access is less than 75' along the sloped FD access. Fire wall is not possible owning to the floor plan configuration.

Is this a High Rise?

 

[Francis Vineyard]

 

[Frank]

Yes by definition

The illustration below as in the previous illustration has the lowest FD access level 75' 5" below the top floor but the access is less than 75' along the sloped FD access. Fire wall is not possible owning to the floor plan configuration.Is this a High Rise?

 

[hlfireinspector]

If the slope is greater than 10% the FD is going to have problems operating on it. Ladder trucks cannot set up on this slope. Fire engines will have a issue getting water from their tanks if parked the wrong direction on the slope.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

hlfireinspector obstructions from the FD access for lower floor levels doesn't assure rescue. My thoughts were the definition is straight forward however I received different opinions locally on this situation.

 

[cda]

If the slope is greater than 10% the FD is going to have problems operating on it. Ladder trucks cannot set up on this slope. Fire engines will have a issue getting water from their tanks if parked the wrong direction on the slope.

Code reference ????

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Appendix;

D103.2 Grade.

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Fire apparatus access roads shall not exceed 10 percent in grade.



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Exception:

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Grades steeper than 10 percent as approved by

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the fire chief.

 

[cda]

We all have appendix and you know what happens

 

[cda]

Appendix;

D103.2 Grade.

​

​

Fire apparatus access roads shall not exceed 10 percent in grade.



​

Exception:

​

​

Grades steeper than 10 percent as approved by

​

the fire chief.

Ok

Don't read stuff unless need to

We have an amendment in chap 5 to 6%

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Traffic Engineer here wants to know

 

[cda]

Appendix;

D103.2 Grade.

​

​

Fire apparatus access roads shall not exceed 10 percent in grade.



​

Exception:

​

​

Grades steeper than 10 percent as approved by

​

the fire chief.

Did you adopt the appendix??

And it is not a public street?

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Did you adopt the appendix??And it is not a public street?

Short answer yes.

ARTICLE III. FIRE PREVENTION CODESec. 12-30. City fire prevention code.

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There is hereby established a fire prevention code for the City of Charlottesville, consisting of theVirginia Statewide Fire Prevention Code adopted pursuant to section 12-31, as well as the regulations set forth within section 12-32, following below.

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Sec. 12-31. Virginia Statewide Fire Prevention Code.

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(a) It shall be the policy and practice of the city to enforce, in its entirety, the Virginia StatewideFire Prevention Code ("SFPC") adopted by the Virginia Board of Housing pursuant to § 27-97of the Virginia Code, as amended from time to time. Accordingly, the SFPC is hereby adopted as part of the fire prevention code of the city. At least one (1) copy of the SFPC shall be maintained in the office of the city's fire chief and such copy shall be made available forinspection during regular office hours.. . .

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Sec. 12-32. Local regulations.

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(a) The SFPC, as adopted pursuant to section 12-31, above, is hereby amended, supplemented,amplified and modified by the following provisions, which are intended to be more restrictive or more

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extensive in scope than the regulations set forth within the SFPC:

103.1.2. Appendices.(i) Appendix B, Fire-Flow Requirements For Buildings, of the International Fire Code -2006 Edition, as amended from time to time (hereinafter "IFC"), is considered part of the IFC for the purposes of Section 103.1 of the SFPC.(ii) Appendix D, Fire Apparatus Access Roads, of the IFC is considered part of the IFC forthe purposes of Section 103.1 of the SFPC, as modified in the City’s Standards and DesignManual. Any conflict between the two documents shall be resolved in favor of the City’s

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Standards and Design Manual.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

ICC response in part considered IFC Section 905.3.1 exception 5.

Commentary: “Exception 5 provides additional information about what must be considered when determining building height with respect to the level of fire department vehicle access. The first Item is a practical one that excludes loading docks of a limited size. The second item notes that although it may be possible to have a fire department vehicle arrive adjacent to the building at a low level. It may not be possible for the fire department to access the building from that level. An example of this condition would be where a road surface is located below a building constructed on a bluff. Although the fire department vehicles can approach from the lower road, fire department personnel cannot access the building from that lower level. Thus, the standpipe requirement would not be based on the road below the bluff”.

Response: "There is not a specific section of the code that addresses our unique situation and most likely, a sloped street was not even considered when this section of the code was written. It is not a black and white condition. Given that, their next approach would be to consider the intent of the code and the purpose of the code requirement. In their opinion, the building would not be classified as a high-rise. The code section references the “level" of fire department access, not a point of access, so it seems reasonable to calculate the level of fire department access similar to the way the average grade plane is calculated. Of course, the local jurisdiction has final authority but this seems to be a sensible approach for applying the high-rise section of the code to our situation. ICC also recommended that we speak with the local fire official to see how they would park and stage their equipment and to understand, realistically, their fire fighting operations."

Thanks again for your replies.

Hope this information is useful.

 

[JBI]

I can't see the pictures, so I'm going on the comments posted...

Vehicle access is about more than simply getting the big, shiny trucks to that location. It is also about the useability of that access point for firefighting. Appendix D has some additional provisions I did not see mentioned...

SECTION D105 AERIAL FIRE APPARATUS ACCESS ROADS

D105.1 Where required.

Where the vertical distance between the grade plane and the highest roof surface exceeds 30 feet (9144 mm), approved aerial fire apparatus access roads shall be provided. For purposes of this section, the highest roof surface shall be determined by measurement to the eave of a pitched roof, the intersection of the roof to the exterior wall, or the top of parapet walls, whichever is greater.

D105.2 Width.

Aerial fire apparatus access roads shall have a minimum unobstructed width of 26 feet (7925 mm), exclusive of shoulders, in the immediate vicinity of the building or portion thereof.

D105.3 Proximity to building.

At least one of the required access routes meeting this condition shall be located within a minimum of 15 feet (4572 mm) and a maximum of 30 feet (9144 mm) from the building, and shall be positioned parallel to one entire side of the building. The side of the building on which the aerial fire apparatus access road is positioned shall be approved by the fire code official.

D105.4 Obstructions.

Overhead utility and power lines shall not be located over the aerial fire apparatus access road or between the aerial fire apparatus road and the building. Other obstructions shall be permitted to be placed with the approval of the fire code official.