Toilet Room Access

[duckbill]

Exisitng Little Caesars Pizza tenant space. Single toilet room at rear of space which does not meet accessiblity. Total reconfiguration of space under IBC 2009, Chapter 34 including increasing size of toilet room for compliance with accessibilty. IBC, 2009, Section 2902.3 requires toilet rooms for the public and Section 2902.3.1 does not allow the route to these facilities to pass through the kitchen as this does. I am requesting the toilet space be moved to the front for access by the public. The architect has shown me scores of designs for this pizza shop used around the country that all have the toilet rooms in the back beyond storage areas and kitchens. What am I missing? Can the public enter then rear door next to the toilet facilities - is that how this design passes?

 

[cda]

Not a toilet expert

Yes the little C's I have seen have this set up

The ones I have seen are take out only,

So does a take out only restaurant need a public toilet??

Most of the take out only places do not have public toilet

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Generally existing buildings can remain as it was when in first compliance. It sounds as though they are making alterations for the toilet room to be fully accessible; does not require that they relocate or reconfigure the floor plan as required for a change of occupancy.

Francis

 

[Builder Bob]

unless a change of occupancy, I do not see how they can be made to comply with restroom relocation. I bet this facility was constructed prior to the 2000 I-codes.......... If ya'll used the SBCCI restroom locations was not necessarily spell out like it is the I-codes

 

[north star]

= = =



duckbill,

I do not know what PA has adopted or uses, but if it is a

"total reconfiguration", would that require a relocation

of the proposed, expanded Accessible toilet?......Maybe

have a hallway constructed to separate all customer

traffic from the Kitchen areas.

& & &

 

[tmurray]

If people aren't eating there is it a restaurant? If so would the supermarket then not be considered a restaurant as well (ours sells hot, ready to eat meals as well)? We usually use Business and Personal Services (don't know what the US equivalent would be).

 

[animal02]

"Total reconfiguration of the space" would triggering full compliance IMO. If it is over 50% full compliance has been required in my past experience.

 

[hlfireinspector]

Just built one here, bathroom up front and accessible.

 

[fatboy]

"Total reconfiguration" Sounds like they need to figure out how to make it compliant with all the code requirements.

 

[mark handler]

Generally existing buildings can remain as it was when in first compliance.Francis

Francis

Very bad advice, There is no "grandfather" clause in the ADA.

They could comply with local building code interpretations and violate State and Federal civil rights laws.

 

[mark handler]

Can it be accessed from the rear, yes, but The POT to the Restrooms must be accessible.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

FrancisVery bad advice, There is no "grandfather" clause in the ADA.

They could comply with local building code interpretations and violate State and Federal civil rights laws.

Mark, I agree with you to some extent, however it is the property owner and designers responsibility to comply with ADDAG or the civil rights legislation. Code officials have neither the responsibility nor the authority for interpreting or enforcing any federal regulations and no attempt should be made to represent that any federal regulations are being interpreted or enforced.



I don’t know what PA has adopted, that’s why my OP was edited.

As for my general comment Assumed the bathroom and kitchen are in the same relationship as before walls are being "reconfigured" the existing building code for alterations require the new walls and spaces be compliant with the current code. Primarily it seems the main concern is of access through the kitchen to the bathroom is a building code issue, not accessibility. The toilet room as before that is now accessible is being provided.

My interpretation is this toilet and kitchen has existed in compliance and can remain until the occupancy of the space(s) is changed.

Francis

 

[mark handler]

You might preface the statement with as far as my department is concerned , existing buildings can remain as it was when in first compliance.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

You might preface the statement with as far as my department is concerned , existing buildings can remain as it was when in first compliance.

Mark any help with my grammar is appreciated; it is one of my weakness and I’m willing to learn and improve in that area. However with all due respect I stand by my answer here as accurate based on alterations in IBC chapter 34; not any local, state and federal laws such as the Readily Achievable Barrier Removal.



It may be worthwhile to cite the code section where you specifically disagree so we can learn from your knowledge and examples.

Francis

 

[north star]

& & &

"So does a take out only restaurant need a public toilet??........Most of the take out only places do not have public toilet"

From the `06 IBC, Section 2902.3 - Required public toilet facilities.

"Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet

facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization.

The number of plumbing fixtures located within the required toilet

facilities shall be provided in accordance with Section 2902.1 for all

users.........Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in all

occupancies.........Employee toilet facilities shall either be separate or

combined employee and public toilet facilities. [P]"

IMO, ...public utilization means that if the public enters the business,

they shall be afforded fully Accessible, public toilets.

Also, if a total reconfiguration of the space is planned, then a

compliant, Accessible P.O.T. must be installed.......Either thru the

interior, or from the exterior [ RE: signage, ...MOE & lighting

compliance, ...parking, etc., etc. ].



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