Tolerances for plumbing and electrical outlet placement (FHA and CBC 11B)

[Yikes]

I know that many CASPs and accessibility experts utilize the "Handbook of Construction Tolerances" by David Kent Ballast to determine compliance with absolute dimensions in the code. I have the 2nd edition, and it has no I don't see any tolerances listed for plumbing or electrical components.

How much construction tolerance would you allow for these two absolute dimensions:

1. The Fair Housing Act Design Manual (pages 7.43-7.45) requires exactly 18" from side wall to centerline of toilet. (Yes, I know ADA is 17-19", CBC is 17-18", but I'm also trying to comply with FHA.)


2. CBC 11B-205.1 exc. 9 and 11B-809.12.4 both require an outlet placed exactly 36" from inside corner of work surface (counter):

 

[arwat23]

1/2" personally, at least for my inspections. It's next to impossible to get things exactly where we want them, especially when code is unnecessarily strict (in my opinion). I bet if you look close enough, you could prove that any water closet installed that needs to comply with the FHA is not exactly 18" off the wall.

 

[ICE]

Given the variety of dimensions found with the human form it seems punitive to not have some degree of deviation in the ADA regulations. I usually went with "close enough". Is that mirror an inch too high or is the human an inch too short. The counter is an inch too deep? Or are you arms an inch too short?

I have cabinets in the kitchen that at 6' I can't reach without a stool.... and another that I have to lay on the floor to get to back of that cabinet.... my wife put the whiskey in that one.... who screwed that up? Now how about my 5'4" wife? The kitchen was definitively not built for her... well the whiskey cabinet I suppose.

You just need to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

 

[BN4537]

ADA 604.2 Location. The water closet shall be positioned with a wall or partition to the rear and to one side. The centerline of the water closet shall be 16 inches (405 mm) minimum to 18 inches (455 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition, except that the water closet shall be 17 inches (430 mm) minimum and 19 inches (485 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition in the ambulatory accessible toilet compartment specified in 604.8.2. Water closets shall be arranged for a left-hand or right-hand approach.

If the ADA and ANSI thinks that you can have an inch of play either direction for this item, I think that gives an inspector a pretty strong basis to allow the same. I certainly would.

A contractor from a large company who does work all over the country did tell me that an inspector somewhere told him that that 18" was absolute and he would not accept even 1/16" either way.

 

[SCBO1]

Okay...you got the ADA sign on the wall and lever door lock installed!
Yep!
Your grab bars are where they need to be!
Yep!
You got the vanity plumbing pipes covered!
Ya!
TP holder looks good!
Ya!
Toilet looks like the right height! ...Wait a minute! Wait a dag gum minute, "The flush handles on the inside toward the wall! What happen there?"
What?
You didn't know they make a right and a left flusher!
Well I'll be!, Guess you'll have to reschedule then....huh!

Tolerances, what world do you guys live in?

 

[Genduct]

ADA 604.2 Location. The water closet shall be positioned with a wall or partition to the rear and to one side. The centerline of the water closet shall be 16 inches (405 mm) minimum to 18 inches (455 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition, except that the water closet shall be 17 inches (430 mm) minimum and 19 inches (485 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition in the ambulatory accessible toilet compartment specified in 604.8.2. Water closets shall be arranged for a left-hand or right-hand approach.

If the ADA and ANSI thinks that you can have an inch of play either direction for this item, I think that gives an inspector a pretty strong basis to allow the same. I certainly would.

A contractor from a large company who does work all over the country did tell me that an inspector somewhere told him that that 18" was absolute and he would not accept even 1/16" either way.

There are those who APPLY the rules and others who INFLICT the rules For those who insist on such close tolerances, can we get them to certify that their measuring instruments have been recently certified as being accurate/

 

[Yikes]

Unfortunately, out here in litigious California:

• California amended the model ADA language to make it 17-18" instead of 16-18". In either case,18" is interpreted as an upper limit of tolerance.
• FHA says the 18" is absolute, which implies a tolerance.
• Several CASPs have said they will accept 17 3/4 to 18" as the only allowable tolerance.

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

I know that many CASPs and accessibility experts utilize the "Handbook of Construction Tolerances" by David Kent Ballast to determine compliance with absolute dimensions in the code. I have the 2nd edition, and it has no I don't see any tolerances listed for plumbing or electrical components.

How much construction tolerance would you allow for these two absolute dimensions:

1. The Fair Housing Act Design Manual (pages 7.43-7.45) requires exactly 18" from side wall to centerline of toilet. (Yes, I know ADA is 17-19", CBC is 17-18", but I'm also trying to comply with FHA.)
View attachment 14997

2. CBC 11B-205.1 exc. 9 and 11B-809.12.4 both require an outlet placed exactly 36" from inside corner of work surface (counter):

View attachment 14999


View attachment 14998

Whichever is the most stringent. I worked with David Ballast on the tolerance book. The ADA says it recognizes standard industry tolerances which was never published anywhere we all knew it to be 1/4" up or down. The figures you show for countertop receptacles were also in the Fair Housing First illustrated manual, but that manual is not compulsory or required. I have seen a lawsuit for the toilet at 1/2" off center not an eight or quarter yet.

 

[Yikes]

Whichever is the most stringent. I worked with David Ballast on the tolerance book. The ADA says it recognizes standard industry tolerances which was never published anywhere we all knew it to be 1/4" up or down. The figures you show for countertop receptacles were also in the Fair Housing First illustrated manual, but that manual is not compulsory or required. I have seen a lawsuit for the toilet at 1/2" off center not an eight or quarter yet.

The illustration I provided was from the Fair Housing Act Design Manual, not from Fair Housing First. Isn't that one compulsory / required?