Training Facility - Parking Spaces (ADA) 208?

[tbz]

So, I am working on a project that is a Police, Fire and Rescue training facility for a County and the question is coming down to is and if so is a ADA parking spot required, and if so how far a travel distance is for a compliant space.

Basically, we have a multi acre paved lot with a 5-story burn tower in the middle and an observation building in the southwest quadrant.

The observation building has 1 indoor training room about 40 x 40, 2 offices and the watch tower control room above,

the AHJ through A117.1 is requesting 1 blue spot with signage, I get it, but there are no white spots, as parking is based on what is going on and keeping back.

There really is no good spot for it next to the observation building that does not put it between the burn tower and well you get it.

Question, can we place this spot 30 feet away from the training building along the edge of the paved surface and not have to pave the walking path to the building?

Still trying to figure out how with no designated parking, we need to add 1 blue spot.

Thanks

 

[e hilton]

Never heard them called blue and white parking spaces.

Unpaved path when there is a paved parking lot? No good.

It’s possible one or more of the trainers could be a handicapped person from on the job injuries. I donkt see how you could avoid providing accessible parking.

 

[steveray]

No parking....no accessible parking...no discrimination...

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

So, I am working on a project that is a Police, Fire and Rescue training facility for a County and the question is coming down to is and if so is a ADA parking spot required, and if so how far a travel distance is for a compliant space.

Basically, we have a multi acre paved lot with a 5-story burn tower in the middle and an observation building in the southwest quadrant.

The observation building has 1 indoor training room about 40 x 40, 2 offices and the watch tower control room above,

the AHJ through A117.1 is requesting 1 blue spot with signage, I get it, but there are no white spots, as parking is based on what is going on and keeping back.

There really is no good spot for it next to the observation building that does not put it between the burn tower and well you get it.

Question, can we place this spot 30 feet away from the training building along the edge of the paved surface and not have to pave the walking path to the building?

Still trying to figure out how with no designated parking, we need to add 1 blue spot.

Thanks

maybe use the able-bodied employee's exemption designation?

 

[Msradell]

I believe you're going to have to provide an ADA parking space since an observer could very easily be handicapped and it's quite possible somebody attending 1 of the training sessions could have a temporary disability at the very least. I don't think the able-bodied employees exemption will work because at least temporary disabilities occur quite often in emergency services. You could probably get away with putting the parking space 30 feet away as you suggested but a paved route from it to the building is going to be Req.

 

[tbz]

We went through the whole process of talking this through, and since the entire facility paved grounds are used for training and you can't put an attending persons vehicle in the line of fire, there is no place to put any parking that are not part of the exercise without them getting in the way.

The parking for the entire complex is at the 911 com center which is paved and has all the parking spaces that are adjacent to the complex.

Hence, everyone parks vehicles not being used in the exercise there before heading over the adjacent grounds, vehicles being used in the exercise park were needed.

Simply to say you need a spot near a building that is in the middle of all the action specifically for handicap that will more times than not get the vehicle damaged, is over thinking a requirement. Once at the primary parking I am pretty sure accommodations will be made to get everyone to where they need to be.

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

We went through the whole process of talking this through, and since the entire facility paved grounds are used for training and you can't put an attending persons vehicle in the line of fire, there is no place to put any parking that are not part of the exercise without them getting in the way.

The parking for the entire complex is at the 911 com center which is paved and has all the parking spaces that are adjacent to the complex.

Hence, everyone parks vehicles not being used in the exercise there before heading over the adjacent grounds, vehicles being used in the exercise park were needed.

Simply to say you need a spot near a building that is in the middle of all the action specifically for handicap that will more times than not get the vehicle damaged, is over thinking a requirement. Once at the primary parking I am pretty sure accommodations will be made to get everyone to where they need to be.

The only other caveat I could think of is if there is some sort of isolated administration office this is probably located way far away (a distance determined to be safe) from the exercise area. That building in the safe zone may need one accessible stall for administrative staff not involved in the actual exercise activity within the exercise training area.

 

[Yikes]

tbz - steveray in post #3 is correct:

1. The number of required accessible spaces is based on the overall number of parking spaces provided. Overall parking requirements are typically generated by the planning/zoning code, not the building code or ADA.
For example ADA Standards (ADAS) table 208.2 requires one accessible space for 1-25 overall total parking spaces. If the planning department / zoning code does not require ANY parking spaces for either the burn tower or the observation building, then the number of required accessible parking spaces is ZERO.

2. For the sake of discussion, let's assume for the moment that your planning department DOES require at least one parking space for the observation building.

• The distance from the accessible parking stall to the building it serves is not prescriptively specified in ADAS. Instead, ADAS 208.3.1 says it "shall be located on the shortest accessible route from parking to an entrance complying with" 206.4. If a parking spot next to the observation building is too dangerous, then a reasonable plan checker can conclude that the "shortest accessible route" to a safe location is a thousand feet away.
• However, if it is a thousand feet away, then you would normally have a 1000' long accessible route from the accessible parking to the observation building entrance. Rough gravel is probably not an accessible surface - paving will be required. There is an exception in ADAS 206.2.2 where a vehicular way is the only means of accessing the site.

3. Another approach to this is to see whether your observation building is required to be accessible at all. If not, then the accessible path could be from your existing 911 center and terminate at the edge of the gravel burn area.

• ADAS 203.3 exempts "raised areas" used "primarily for purposes of... fire safety". The problem is, you have a "training room", so the observation building is not used solely for observation.

I think the training room and offices are your biggest issue. If those are triggering parking requirements (see #1 above), then I suggest considering all of the following:

• Provide the accessible stall(s) at the 911 call center.
• Use the exception in ADAS 206.2.2 "vehicular circulation only" to not provide a long accessible paved path.
• At the observation building, provide a "passenger dropoff and loading zone" in compliance with ADAS 503. Thsi will require a min. 96" x 20' long vehicle space and a min. 60" x 20' parallel access aisle. This implies that it can be used to provide mobility access to the observation building, but vehicles do not need to be parked there during a burn event.

 

[tbz]

Thanks Yikes,

There is a 2 lane drive from the main street to the 911 com center which has plenty of parking and more than required designated slots.

Then from the 911 com center there is a paved access drive (24'-6" wide nominal) starts with a gate and then leads to an 2.5 ac paved area with a 4 story burn tower and a secondary building for breaching and clearing. On top of the secondary building is a small control tower.

They ran their first training there last week for EMS responders, responding to an active shooter drill. The next day there was not a clean spot that I didn't find a light blue paint ball at.

We are not in charge of any of the 2 buildings, different firm, we are responsible for everything else on the site. Thus, from looking at the buildings there are no classrooms, they seem to be up at the 911 com center. and It seems everything down at the site is active training.

The bottom line is, getting someone that needs the help to the right location does not seem to be a problem and the site plan clearly shows all parking at the com center.