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Two rooms or one?

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retire09

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
365
Location
Alaska
For exiting purposes, how much wall space has to be open between two spaces for them to be considered one room or space?

We have a room that requires two exits based on occupant load and the second exit cannot be provided.

If they open over 50% of the wall space to the adjacent room, can this area be counted as one big room as long as travel distance is not exceeded?

Is there a code section that describes this 50% wall space provision?
 
We have the separation of exits for the overall building.

We have a separate room with an occupant load of 75 served by a single exit back though the rest of the building and no way to provide a second exit that would meet separation from the other exit in that room.

The idea was to open up the room to the point it would no longer be considered a separate room requiring two exits.

Is 50% of the wall enough?

Code section?

Thanks
 
The adjacent room has two exits with the required separation, the added occupant load from this room would not trigger the requirement for a third exit. If I can combine the two rooms into one, everything will work.

I just need to know if there is a formula or code section that determines how much wall space must be completely open between two spaces to be considered the same room.
 
retire09 said:
The adjacent room has two exits with the required separation, the added occupant load from this room would not trigger the requirement for a third exit. If I can combine the two rooms into one, everything will work.I just need to know if there is a formula or code section that determines how much wall space must be completely open between two spaces to be considered the same room.
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I think I understand now.....assuming it would make egress width and remoteness.....I would think that we would have to approve anything wider than say...a corridor....? Or minimum habitable room dimensions might be more appropriate...? 7 Feet?
 
I just need to know if there is a formula or code section that determines how much wall space must be completely open between two spaces to be considered the same room.
Click to expand...
I don't know of a specific code section that will address this. Can you elaborate more on the use in the room with the single exit? Dinning, conference, telemarketers, classroom? Might help know what the risk may be. Sprinklers?
 
The whole building is A-3. The room with the single exit is for dancing with no food or drink consumption. No sprinklers.

The single exit room has a much higher occupant load than the larger adjacent room.

I would think that at least half of the wall separating the two spaces would have to be removed in order to consider it all one room.
 
It sounds like a 3-0 opening would provide an exit from this space into the adjoining room. By allowing the passage through an interveining room per 1014.2 (2003 Ed.), as long as the exits are clearly visible within the space you would be okay. I would say that exit signs need to be provided at the door and door swing needs to be addressed, but if the second room provides 2 exits other than the door from the first space, no problem. It the door serves as the second exit from both spaes, leave the door off and put exit signs on both sides. The wall between would not require fire rating if not a occupancy or area seperation. Sounds pretty simply if I am understanding the plan correctly. What do others think?
 
That is the situation I have now. The dance room with one exit is exiting through the adjoining room which has two exits. Due to occupant load, I still need a second exit from the dance room that cannot be done and meet separation distance from the existing exit.

The question remains; how much walls space must be removed in order to call this all one room?
 
Maybe the required width to accomodate the occupant load from the room that has one exit.

have not heard the question before, but have seen what looks like could be two rooms before.

you might look at adjoining room provision and make sure you meet that

beacuse you see in assemby with movable partitions a door in the partition as an exit

sounds like it wil be what the ahj thinks is one room
 
Can 2 doors, 3-0 in size be installed in the adjoining wall and meet the diagonal separation distance of 1/2 by relocating the exist door to the extreme outer edge of the wall? I understand now what you have. I thought you had an exit door already from the space to the exterior, but all you have is an interior door leading into the dance room from the other. Makes more sense.
 
I think you understand the situation now but No we can't get two exits that meet the diagonal distance required.

This has to be considered all one room in order to make it work.
 
Okay then I would say that greater than 50% of the wall length has to be open between the 2 spaces to count this as one room. Exit signs would have to be installed so that no area within the space does not see 2 available exit points. There could be no temporary wall or retractable curtain installed within the open space. Can I back this up with code sections, no. At what point does a divider define a room? Can't be found in any I-Codes that I have found. Good Luck and lets see what others say.
 
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