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Unlimited Area Greenhouses

FM William Burns

FM William Burns

Moderator
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
2,901
Location
The Mitten State
Scenario

Single Story Unlimited Area Use - 2 (25 acre greenhouse buildings all enclosed)

New Construction 1A

Travel Distance >300 and >400

Question: How and where (IBC 2009) could this proposed facility meet the travel distance limitations? I can’t feel more like I’m missing something simple that will address how the Means of Egress is exempted but can’t find it.

BTW…. I only know of horizontal exits to refuge area or separated/protected construction at the limit as a means of meeting compliance. Anything else would be appreciated.

No problem addressing code requirements for the accessory storage, dormitory and processing facilities just the mega greenhouses.
 
Sounds like a alternative materials, design and methods of construction and equipment request. I have had to do these in the past for huge warehouses, parking garages and assembly plants.
 
Yea...really don't know just getting ready for a meeting with their people. The growing aisles have trip hazards (rails) and they are 875' long from exterior wall end to end. Not so worried about fire versus the workers attacking themselves or weather related incident affecting that travel distance limitations.
 
True, but remember that Section 101.3 addresses "hazards associated with the built environment". The only place in the code where weather is addresses is for outdoor venues. Angry workers is a real concern, but not one addressed in the IBC.
 
Unlimited Area Greenhouses

Scenario

Single Story Unlimited Area Use - 2 (25 acre greenhouse buildings all enclosed)

New Construction 1A

Travel Distance >300 and >400

Question: How and where (IBC 2009) could this proposed facility meet the travel distance limitations? I can’t feel more like I’m missing something simple that will address how the Means of Egress is exempted but can’t find it.

ANSWER: It can't.....
 
CD,

I use the Life Safety Code also and by that the workers with machetes constitutes a life safety emergency as does weather and where one's ability to reach an exit as prescribed and limited is in need of consideration.

Steveray,

Don't want to be a smart a$$ but no S%^$..hence the issue.

Don't get me wrong, I just don't want to hang my rear out there and in some years come back at me when someone is looking for a civil claim because a poor migrant lost their life and we knew it would not comply. I will have AHJ permission in hand and in written form after citing the obvious.
 
SR,

Their open and hydroponic growing scheme. Rails run down the aisles so the workers can pick and roll. Putting in a horzontal barrier in will affect their trackwork. I will ask them for an engineered life safety evaluation in accordance with LSC and probably just let the suits use 104 of IBC or Code Modification provision in Chapter 1.
 
No............. maters. :)

Frank,

Man that would make it easier but not an option here.....was looking for some sort of Ag exemption in IBC but started getting headache
 
If someone else is good with it, let them sign it....it sounds like very low risk, but I have a hard time lessening the "getting out of the building stuff" But I don't have to worry about that ...we have to send them to the State anyway....for modifications.....

we have had existing schools that were 3X over the allowable H&A with the sprinklers they DID NOT have....
 
Sounds like a job for a FPE. I'm not sure 104 is intended to modify means of egress travel distance provisions.
 
I would rather use an approved alternate than an underground solution. The tunnels I have seen become dark, skank, and flooded with water. I would rather travel further through the building than trust one of them.
 
Did you mean travel distance > 300' and <400?

What occupancy group have you assigned to the greenhouses?
 
Look up U at end of chapter 3

"...and shall be constructed equipped and maintained to conform to the requirements of this code commensurate with the fire and life hazard incidental to their occupancy."

What is the roof type?

The plastic roof panels are self operating smoke and heat vents. Note that the smoke and heat vent travel distance increase goes away for 2009 IBC.

If the greenhouse has plastic roof panels the fire hazard to the occupants is approximately equal to that of an open field with green crops growing in it-- the occupants could outwalk an expected fire and the smoke and heat would be vented out the roof. It is significantly less than the danger posed by a field of corn, wheat, or beans just before harvest on a dry windy day that you cannot outrun.
 
Tomatoes will require high relative humidity, extensive watering system(s) and controlled temperatures with constant ventilation.

How many employees maximum in the space at any one time?
 
FM Bill,

Our office has done an alternate methods evaluation for a rather substantial unlimited area greenhouse (I think it was about 43 acres under roof. You're right. It needs to be done right and the AHJ needs to be involved. Our biggest problem was that the local building official thought dirt was a fire hazard. We had a hard time overcoming that bit of argument.

John,

The employee to square foot ratio is incredible. It may be as much as 10,000 SF per person. These systems tend to be highly automated and require only visual supervision to make sure that the systems are working right. Most of the times even picking is automated. Its usually only for special requests or limited productions that physical picking is needed, yet they need to set up the equipment so it can be done.
 
Texasbo,



>300 for a sprinkled facility and since they most likely will not sprinkle we have to use the >400 for non-sprinkled. Their mist delivery will not come close to a consideration for sprinkled facility however will be existent. The preliminary design has no exit doors on exterior and they will not meet the 60 or 40’ perimeter for single story in [507].



Classified as U [312.1] Greenhouses





Frank,



The roof assembly is steel and glass panel windows and noticed the smoke removal in 09.



JD,



Proposed OL is 100 employees Phase 1 and 200 with Phase 2. The total travel distance from a 12’ interior main aisle/exit access length wise is 896’ with no exit doors proposed and to the exterior walls on both sides is 471’ with no exit doors proposed.



Gene,



Correct on the process and good to know and may drop the name of your firm if OK with you?

Meeting with their DP and Engineering in the morning.
 
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