Unqualified Inspector? What to do?

[QWERTY]

I reside in a jurisdication with a county and a very small town. The county has 97% of the jurisdiction construciton activity and the other 3% occurs in the town.

I am a member of the building community and have had issues and concerns with the town inspector.

He currenlty has zero building inspector certificaitons from the ICC. None. He has not been doing this job for very long and was recently suspended for 90 days for "administrative reasons", involving a conflict of interest.

here is the problem that I would like to get opinions and perhaps direction on how to approach.

Most of the work in the town is small decks, a few new houses, and tenant improvements.

Over the past year and a half, however, there has been a project to bring a hospital to our small rural community.

The town will be incharge of inspections of this facility and I have grave concerns. I asked the town director if they were going to be contracting it out, and he told me, no, it would be done in house.

I believe this is largely motivated by financial reasons.

This is a hospital, for our entire community.

What, if anything should I do? Anyone encounter anything similar??

Thanks. This seemed a good place to get opinions from the code folks.

 

[brudgers]

The owner can hire their own inspector if they are so inclined.

A concerned citizen could even donate money to pay for such an inspector.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Depending on your state hospitals have to jump through many agencies to get approved. However the field inspections can be overwhelming to those with limited code or construction experience. Does your state have jurisdiction over the local AHJ or do they have minimum qualifications for inspectors?

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Depending on your state hospitals have to jump through many agencies to get approved. However the field inspections can be overwhelming to those with limited code or construction experience. Does your state have jurisdiction over the local AHJ or do they have minimum qualifications for inspectors?

I am with brudgers and mt on this one. We have certified inspectors, however, we often request third party inspections for work we are not certified for. I know it is not uncommon in larger cities, and often not cost prohibitive, but that may different in a smaller population base such as your jurisdictional area. You might attend CC meetings when the project is presented and sugest third party inspections as part of the bid package...and if you offer to donate money for the additional expense, you may even become a hero in brudgers eyes.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

A concerned citizen could even donate money to pay for such an inspector.

We have concerned citizens donate money for our football stadium all the time around here...I don't see why a county hospital should be any different. :cheers

 

[FM William Burns]

I agree with both my fellow colleagues. Check with your state to see if the "Health Care Facility" is under the jurisdiction of state regulations and therefore their inspection perview or suggest that the community hire a 3rd party inspector/firm for their piece of mind. Sorry PBD, we both posted at the same time....I agree with you too

 

[brudgers]

As an aside, where my in-laws live in North Georgia, building permits used to be $35 regardless of scope.

There were no inspections.

Not sure if that's still the case.

But I remember once, not many years ago, driving into the town of Blue Ridge and under the city limits sign there was another.

It said "Building Codes Enforced."

 

[QWERTY]

I checked with washington state, they have no specific requirements for licensing of inspectors.

I have put in a call to the Dept. of Health regarding construction of new facilities.

The issue about paying for another inspecton firm is, the hospital has already paid a lot of money for plan review and permitting fees, which should cover inspections. They have done that under the assumption that the inspector would be fully qualified.

In my opinion, based on a number of recent projects completed, this inspector is not qualified. He possesses no ICC certifications. His expierence is minimal.

 

[globe trekker]

QWERTY,

We have a hospital in this AHJ that they recently did a remodel for

a "new" Burn Center Wing" The state health dept. & their

inspection staff were more thorough than we were, and our

city inspectors; including the Fire Chief, were pretty

thorough!

I would not be too concerned about the lack of experience

from the town inspector. The state level health dept.

should cover / inspect everything to their satisfaction,

which usually means NFPA -101 & 99 levels.

.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Depending on the size and type of construction most hospitals will re quire numerous special inspections done by third party inspectors on the structural portion of the building.

 

[Min&Max]

Certifications is a non-issue. I have my share and take no great pride in them. Just a necessary hoop to jump through to get and keep my job. Many who have them will drone on and on about how important they are but the reality is they only prove that you can complete an open book test in an alloted amount of time. I have no doubt that virtually any college graduate(experienced test takers) with zero construction experience could pass most tests if given a week to prepare. At the same time you certainly have tradesman working in their respective fields who would be excellant inspectors but do poorly when testing. Certifications are virtually meaningless except for providing ICC with an exceptional source of income.

The design professionals are ultimately responsible for making sure the project meets their design specs and should be providing inspections as part of their scope of work---especially when it is clear the jurisdictions inspector is not qualified for the complexity of the project. I know of three hospital projects in nearby jurisdictions in which the jurisdictions provide absolutely zero inspections and have not adopted a building code. Again, the design professionals are responsible for assuring their specs have been met.

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings

Here in Texas those things get inspected to death seems like. That said, I did find a really bad booboo with the electric grounding in our hospital here which was almost finished when I hired on. I don't know if any of the state guys would have spotted it or not. Kinda spooky.

Byron

 

[AegisFPE]

the hospital has already paid a lot of money for plan review and permitting fees, which should cover inspections

It is not uncommon for jurisdictions with projects out of their league to utilize third-party review services. Of course, costs beyond that covered by the permit review fee are typically passed on to the applicant. In addition to the local authority, hospitals should see a fair amount of scrutiny, from DOH, JCAHO and CMS.

 

[Mark K]

"Again, the design professionals are responsible for assuring their specs have been met."

This statement reflects a misunderstanding of the role of the design professional. It is the Owner's responsibility to get the building properly. The Owner may hire the design professional to assist him in that effort and many design professionals may have provisions in their contract to provide construction administration services. But if the owner does not support the design professional or on occasion tells the design professional not to visit the site there is little the design professional can do especially if the building department dosent exist or is not active.

The design professional has no authority to direct the contractor what to do unless provided by the Owner.

 

[Min&Max]

Mark K,

Depends what state you are in. Here he is on the hook and required by state law to make periodic inspections. No drawing pretty pictures and walking away and letting the contractor figure out how to make it work.

 

[brudgers]

"Again, the design professionals are responsible for assuring their specs have been met."This statement reflects a misunderstanding of the role of the design professional. It is the Owner's responsibility to get the building properly. The Owner may hire the design professional to assist him in that effort and many design professionals may have provisions in their contract to provide construction administration services. But if the owner does not support the design professional or on occasion tells the design professional not to visit the site there is little the design professional can do especially if the building department dosent exist or is not active.

The design professional has no authority to direct the contractor what to do unless provided by the Owner.

Site observation requirements vary by state. In Alabama, if I am not contracted for site observation then I must notify both the building department and the board of architecture. In addition, if I am contracted and have lost professional control, I am required to notify the board and building department as well and withdraw from the job.

Since this sounds like a PITA (particularly since I need to involve my E&O carrier, too) my contracts state that failure to approve additional site visits which I deem necessary, constitutes loss of professional control.

Florida, on the other hand could care less if I ever visit the site.

 

[Mark K]

I would be interested in exactly what the state law requires. Can you provide a link to that requirement.

I think that you will find that the design professionals contract with the Owner is what will define what he is required to do. The IBC requires special inspections and structural observations be provided but this is a requirement that is on the Owner. If the Owner does not contract with the design professional to provide these services the design professional has no obligation. Remember that from the viewpoint of the jurisdiction it is the Owner who is responsible for complying with the regualtions even though others may perform individual tasks.

My point still stands. Even if the engineer makes inspections he cannot direct the contractor unless authorized by the Owner. This is a result of the Owner and Contractor agreement.

 

[ICE]

In see fingers pointed in several directions, but it all comes down to the inspector. DPs and engineers are great at what they do but they are not inspectors. They will know the big picture of the code and inspectors will know the nuts and bolts.

Speaking of bolts, I inspected a four{might have been three, crap my memory is waning} story dormitory. Upon arrival for footing and slab inspection I parked my truck 15' from the forms and sat there for a moment as the superintendent approached. He handed me an engineers structural observation report and they passed without a glitch. I asked the super what diameter anchor bolts were specified on the plans and he said 5/8". I said that I found that hard to believe because my office set says 3/4". He threw his plans in the air and tore up the report. The anchor bolts were 9" apart and there were hundreds .... all 5/8".

Later they framed a first floor wing and had the engineer generate a struc. report. I just happened to notice and stopped in. The place was swept clean and I found one nail wedged at the bottom plate. I placed that nail against a 3"x and asked the super if this was the nail they used for framing. He said yes. I said it's too short. He said he had an engineers struc. report and the plans call for 20s and that's a 20. Yes it was a 20, a 20 sinker and the plans spec. is 20 common. The engineer added an A35 to each side of every stud and a bunch of flats went in at king studs, plates etc.

For the OP's dilemma. The dormitory I speak of was a first for me. Anybody could have said about me, much of what you say here.

I do have a certs, ** at last count. I started out with * and then ICC did a cert. split and now I have to read a list to tell you what they are. My opinion of certs is they weren't that easy to get but not all that difficult either. Right next to me was a UPS driver who knew zero about construction and she passed 4 disciplines.

Your trepidation that the inspector may not be qualified needs to be qualified. Just because he has never inspected a commercial project doesn't mean that he's not up to the task. His boss seems to think so.

 

[Daddy-0-]

We do commercial inspections for small surrounding counties that have limited or no commercial staff. It is possible.

 

[incognito]

The contract between an owner and design professional is worthless paper as far as I am concerned. If a law requires the design professional to make inspections he better get them done because state laws trump whatever contract he may have with the owner. If the design professional does not provide copies of his inspection reports I have no qualms about turning them in for disciniplary action by their state board. But I would guess that not all state laws are the same.

From what I've seen the guys with a bunch of certifications need them because they do such a poor job in the field. They need something to convince everyone that they are "qualified" to do their job.

 

[Yankee]

There is a mix up in the posts below with regard to inspection done by the design professional and the Special Inspections done as required under the Building Code. The design professional inspections are between him and his client, but the Special Inspections in the Building Code must be an independent third party firm (NOT the design professional) paid for by the project and approved by the AHJ.

After special inspections are the typical inspections covered by the jurisdiction or someone they hire (paid for by the project by way of permit fees or on top of such).

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings all

Interesting discussion.

We had a new high school built here a few years ago which was a couple of years before I hired on. It has had a multitude of problems some of which I mentioned in another post regarding electolysis eating up the gas piping, window frames and so forth. Also they have serious settlement problems a result of using improper fill dirt. I don't know all of the details but I do know that the design professionals were somehow responsible for their own inspections and the local building inspector was not involved. I can't imagine a scholl district going this route but they apparently did and it has come back to bite them in the behind big time. The shame of it all is that the taxpayers get to cover the cost of repairs. Of course this is a contibuiting factor to 2 local shcools being closed and all personnel being laid off. I'm amazed at how often folks pay through the teeth as a result of trying to cut corners.

Byron

 

[brudgers]

Greetings allInteresting discussion.

We had a new high school built here a few years ago which was a couple of years before I hired on. It has had a multitude of problems some of which I mentioned in another post regarding electolysis eating up the gas piping, window frames and so forth. Also they have serious settlement problems a result of using improper fill dirt. I don't know all of the details but I do know that the design professionals were somehow responsible for their own inspections and the local building inspector was not involved. I can't imagine a scholl district going this route but they apparently did and it has come back to bite them in the behind big time. The shame of it all is that the taxpayers get to cover the cost of repairs. Of course this is a contibuiting factor to 2 local shcools being closed and all personnel being laid off. I'm amazed at how often folks pay through the teeth as a result of trying to cut corners.

Byron

Often, government entities such as public schools are exempt from permitting requirements at the local level.

With faulty construction, there are often allegations that the design professionals are responsible. This does not mean that they are, nor does it mean that they are not.

 

[brudgers]

I would be interested in exactly what the state law requires. Can you provide a link to that requirement.I think that you will find that the design professionals contract with the Owner is what will define what he is required to do. The IBC requires special inspections and structural observations be provided but this is a requirement that is on the Owner. If the Owner does not contract with the design professional to provide these services the design professional has no obligation. Remember that from the viewpoint of the jurisdiction it is the Owner who is responsible for complying with the regualtions even though others may perform individual tasks.

My point still stands. Even if the engineer makes inspections he cannot direct the contractor unless authorized by the Owner. This is a result of the Owner and Contractor agreement.

I think you will find that you are mistaken in the expectation that I will find that Architectural services in Alabama are as you suggest.

Link to Regulations: http://www.alarchbd.state.al.us/PDFs/Architects/ArchHandbkMar2011.pdf

See section 100-X-5-.06 Construction Administration. on page 34.