Upping gas pressure in someone else's Townhouse?

[steveray]

I have some townhouses that when they were constructed, all of the gas ran through all of the adjacent units (and was legal to do so), from one end and left off as they went. The far end homeowner now wants to raise the half pound gas to 2 pound gas and regulate down at his appliances so he can install an automatic generator. I have pause with this, but don't know that I can prevent it by code....Any thoughts?

5 pounds is allowed in the building by IRC

G2413.6 (402.6) Maximum design operating pressure. The
maximum design operating pressure for piping systems
located inside buildings shall not exceed 5 pounds per square
inch gauge (psig) (34 kPa gauge) except where one or more
of the following conditions are met:
1. The piping system is welded.
2. The piping is located in a ventilated chase or otherwise
enclosed for protection against accidental gas accumulation.
3. The piping is a temporary installation for buildings
under construction.

Todays code:

G2415.3 (404.3) Prohibited locations. Piping shall not be
installed in or through a ducted supply, return or exhaust, or a
clothes chute, chimney or gas vent, dumbwaiter or elevator
shaft. Piping installed downstream of the point of delivery
shall not extend through any townhouse unit other than the
unit served by such piping.

This is about the only section I could hang my hat on:

G2412.3 (401.3) Modifications to existing systems. In modifying or adding to existing piping systems, sizes shall be maintained in accordance with this chapter.

If it is already "out of compliance with this chapter" can I let him modify it?

Not set on anything, but Shirley don't want this one to blow up in anyone's face...

Thanks!

 

[cda]

Thoughts

1. He has an independent line from the meter to his unit correct??

2. And code allows up to five pounds?

3. And he only wants to bump it to two pounds??

Seem like you do not have a cat int this hunt??



The generator will be outside??? Correct?

Not sure how he could run a separate line to it, on the exterior side??? But seems like that should happen.

 

[e hilton]

Thoughts

1. He has an independent line from the meter to his unit correct??

I don’t think so, and that’s part of the question.

2 thoughts: if the higher pressure is within the limit of what was allowed when the structure was built, let them do it. Or, my preference, tell that owner to run a separate line like current code requires.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Will the gas provider raise it from the 1/2 lbs to 2 lbs and will that negatively effect the other appliances if raised to that number? Dot your I's and cross your T's and get everything in writing from the gas provider and maybe a 3rd party is qualified to answer the questions.
If he has an independent line then it should not be an issue.

 

[tmurray]

Dissenting opinion: he can keep what he has, but if he wants to change it (change the pressure), it needs brought to current code.

 

[steveray]

Will the gas provider raise it from the 1/2 lbs to 2 lbs and will that negatively effect the other appliances if raised to that number? Dot your I's and cross your T's and get everything in writing from the gas provider and maybe a 3rd party you is qualified to answer the questions.
If he has an independent line then it should not be an issue.

He is going to regulate his other appliances back down...He has his own dedicated line, just passes through other units in the basements.....

 

[classicT]

The IEBC generally has the principal that existing non-conformities shall be allowed to remain, so long as they are not extended or conditions made worse. Raising the pressure of the line increases the hazard associated with the gas line that is run through the townhomes.

Therefore, I agree with TMurray and say that he can keep what he has, but if he wants to change the pressure, then it needs brought to current code standards.

 

[steveray]

The IEBC generally has the principal that existing non-conformities shall be allowed to remain, so long as they are not extended or conditions made worse. Raising the pressure of the line increases the hazard associated with the gas line that is run through the townhomes.

Therefore, I agree with TMurray and say that he can keep what he has, but if he wants to change the pressure, then it needs brought to current code standards.

IEBC is pretty thin if you actually try to generate a code path....Thanks though....I haven't gone fully in depth there yet....And then I would argue with myself that if 5lbs. is allowed, increasing it to 2 is not hazardous or dangerous....LOL

 

[cda]

IEBC is pretty thin if you actually try to generate a code path....Thanks though....I haven't gone fully in depth there yet....And then I would argue with myself that if 5lbs. is allowed, increasing it to 2 is not hazardous or dangerous....LOL

Allowed by code

Require leak test, prior to approving higher pressure???

 

[steveray]

At least...

 

[classicT]

Did some more digging....

R101.4.1 Gas​

The International Fuel Gas Code is not adopted by the State of Connecticut. Any references to the International Fuel Gas Code within the body of this code shall be considered references to requirements of NFPA 2, Hydrogen Technologies Code, NFPA 54, National Fuel Gas Code and NFPA 58, Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code.​

​

I could not locate much in NFPA 54 regarding modifications to existing systems, other than that when adding an appliance, the system shall be checked for proper sizing.

​

R101.4.7 Existing Buildings Code​

The permit applicant may elect at the time of application for permit to follow the requirements of the 2015 International Existing Building Code portion of the 2018 Connecticut State Building Code, as an alternative compliance to the requirements of this code. The applicant must indicate this choice on the permit application and on all construction documents.​

​

So the IEBC is not a requirement, but an alternative in CT.

IMHO, I would not permit that applicant to increase the pressure in the line running through the townhomes per G2415.3. Increasing the pressure increases the hazard.

I will say, this is just my opinion. It is not 100% backed up by a code section. I am applying my judgement as a BO to discern the intent of the the code. It is my opinion that the intent of the code in this matter is to allow the continued use of the gas piping, which is installed in a previously permitted, but illegal condition. However, by increasing the pressure, the hazard level would be increased, and I therefore would not approve.

Keep it the same (leave it alone), make it safer (bring up to current code standards), but do not make the condition more hazardous.

 

[steveray]

You must have found an old amendment we do use IRC Ch. 24 now, but 54 for commercial...I kicked it up to my State guys so we will see what they say, I just want to make sure we are all doing the same thing, whichever direction that may be...

 

[cda]

The other thing,,,

Depending on who controls natural gas there.

Unless you had asked or if he offered the information,,,

You may have not known if the pressure was increased????? !!!!!

I put in a gas range, in place of an electric cooktop,,,

I was worried if I would have to upsize gas delivery,,,,

Here the gas is controlled by a separate gas company,,,

That would have just come out and changed the meter

 

[north star]

@ ! @

Q1): Will increasing the pressure from 1/2 lb. to 2lbs.
on the main gas supply line affect the other
townhouses and their appliances, or would each of
the other townhouse gas supply lines now need a
different gas regulator ?

IMO, ...increasing the existing, main gas line pressure
from 1/2 lb. to 2 lbs. is allowed by the IRC [ i.e. - max.
of 5 lbs. ], unless that pressure increase negatively
affects the other townhouses.

@ ! @

 

[steveray]

Spoke with the State, they concur with the "line was allowed, 5lbs was allowed, no increase in hazard" approach.....