vehicle barrier-side entrance garage 6 ft verticle drop-code requirement -Michigan

[Birmingplumb]

Neighbors has attached side entrance garage at rear of his house 15 ft off my property line with asphalt driveway on property line ( +/- 2' ) about 6ft above my property (on a Hill with Existing concrete 40 year old retaining wall 6ft high that crumbled,leaned thus failed. He is doing replacement absent permits/engineer I believe. Since his car when exiting his garage , is pointed towards the 6ft retaining wall and my backyard- it dawned on me that his car can come over the wall-drop 6ft on one of my grandchildren if they were below enjoying the yard. This had to be approved by township when built . I have been there 20 years and as a plumber soon realized the code was violated when his driveway was dumping rainwater on my property due to elevated asphalt driveslope/pitching towards my house. I decided to install a french drain between the 2 properties to keep my basement dry and during process he came over and said his wall was failing. I put french drain on hold so equipment could demo / remove his wall as a good neighbor would. Now I realize he is installing a 10 block high wall ( with small cinderblock type 10" high blocks--and he claimed to one of his workers that he does not want to go over 10 blocks high otherwise he needs a engineer. I highly doubt this to be accurate and now that I discovered the imminent danger of his car coming over this here wall I am asking what to do- I was trying to stay neighborly but now I am having second thoughts. I want his driveway to slope towards his house to address the plumbing code issue which states rainwater shall not be discharged on neighboring property; as well as, the vehicle barrier absent from day 1 and the slide possibility of an un-engineered wall --and more. The township missed the rainwater slope of his hard surface drive; as well as, the absent vehicle barrier and gave him an occupancy permit 40 yrs. ago---I am asking if we do go to court, can I make the township uphold the codes and make this imminent danger disappear and stop the rainwater discharging towards my house which is lower? I am 72 and I think he is leading the house for a sale --why?-he has a kid up north he said, and they are up there and considering moving there---and this is the very first time he has spoken to me in 23 years. Motown

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Good question but I don't know anyone here could answer that question that the court would or could decide on your side.

 

[north star]

@ ~ @

Birmingplumb, an all around bad situation for you & your property.

Unfortunately, to protect your property & family members, you
will [ most likely ] need to "lawyer up"..........When you search for
a competent lawyer, try to find one who is experienced with
construction & construction related laws.

@ ~ @

 

[steveray]

Most codes the "vehicle barrier" requirements are just for parking garages and not for surface parking....But around here that wall would require a permit and engineering....

 

[ICE]

If the natural grade of the area is such that rainwater from the uphill property flows over a lower property there is no foul. That being said, the uphill property can not cause an increase or concentration of of rainwater to flow to the lower property. The hard-scape does exactly that. There are simple mitigating measures that can be implemented such as a swale.

A retaining wall of that height requires an engineered design as well as a permit. The surcharge from a vehicle is substantial. A barrier to stop a car is a conundrum not addressed by the building code. Trees come to mind.

 

[e hilton]

Before you call a lawyer, have a friendly chat with the permit office, and/or zoning office. Don’t be confrontational, as for advice. And have pictures.

 

[ICE]

Don’t be confrontational

Michigan is an open carry state.

 

[tbz]

Sometimes it helps just to ask a few questions to the nextdoor neighbor, like

• That looks like a pretty large undertaking, I was talking with a work mate that is doing one of those by his place and he was saying they needed a basic permit because it was over x-height.... was that true for your project to replace the existing or didn't you need one?
• What type of reinforcement did the designer or contractor say you needed to hold back all that dirt for that height?
• With all that new pavement going in, did the city require you to put in a drain of some sort to prevent sending all that water into the street?

Ask basic logically questions, and frame them like good job, looks like a lot of work, how hard was the city to work with.

Sometimes just asking in a friendly manner of curiosity will opens some eyes and then there are those that just don't care and put lipstick on farm animals.

 

[steveray]

Sometimes it helps just to ask a few questions to the nextdoor neighbor, like

• That looks like a pretty large undertaking, I was talking with a work mate that is doing one of those by his place and he was saying they needed a basic permit because it was over x-height.... was that true for your project to replace the existing or didn't you need one?
• What type of reinforcement did the designer or contractor say you needed to hold back all that dirt for that height?
• With all that new pavement going in, did the city require you to put in a drain of some sort to prevent sending all that water into the street?

Ask basic logically questions, and frame them like good job, looks like a lot of work, how hard was the city to work with.

Sometimes just asking in a friendly manner of curiosity will opens some eyes and then there are those that just don't care and put lipstick on farm animals.

You would make a good inspector Tom.....

 

[ICE]

Sometimes it helps just to ask a few questions to the nextdoor neighbor, like

• That looks like a pretty large undertaking, I was talking with a work mate that is doing one of those by his place and he was saying they needed a basic permit because it was over x-height.... was that true for your project to replace the existing or didn't you need one?
• What type of reinforcement did the designer or contractor say you needed to hold back all that dirt for that height?
• With all that new pavement going in, did the city require you to put in a drain of some sort to prevent sending all that water into the street?

Ask basic logically questions, and frame them like good job, looks like a lot of work, how hard was the city to work with.

Sometimes just asking in a friendly manner of curiosity will opens some eyes and then there are those that just don't care and put lipstick on farm animals.

Questions are red flags. "So my friend did this and had to get a permit...how about you my neighbor that hasn't said one word in 23 years?" "Is the engineer a man or a woman?...Oh, ah excuse me, ah ya that was inappropriate....I meant to ask about the re-bar?"

Before the third degree starts you should have an identified exit strategy. And as I mentioned, Michigan is an open carry state so you might want to eyeball him for guns first.

 

[JPohling]

23 years and not a word spoken between neighbors? crazy

 

[Birmingplumb]

If the natural grade of the area is such that rainwater from the uphill property flows over a lower property there is no foul. That being said, the uphill property can not cause an increase or concentration of of rainwater to flow to the lower property. The hard-scape does exactly that. There are simple mitigating measures that can be implemented such as a swale.

A retaining wall of that height requires an engineered design as well as a permit. The surcharge from a vehicle is substantial. A barrier to stop a car is a conundrum not addressed by the building code. Trees come to mind.

Ice -wow! sorry took so long to reply not getting e mail notify on thread....so ...update---let it play out----rained 4 of last 7 daays ---they got 1st row in of block----rained more---wife says "honey look, huge chunks ashault (6 - 2 ft x 1 ft ) broke off and come down the hill , looks like earthquake---" and yet his jeep was on the drive still using side entrance garage and sandy fill slid due to erosion so he will be re-booting imo. Love "surcharge" term. Going to call the kid doing the project today will update.

 

[tbz]

Before the third degree starts you should have an identified exit strategy. And as I mentioned, Michigan is an open carry state so you might want to eyeball him for guns first.

Not sure where the 23-years of non-contact comes from, since OP I thought I read mentioned he talked to them about holding back his drain work because the neighbor spoke to him about access on his property to work on the wall from below and the OP decided to wait on the drain's they were thinking of installing as prevented measures?

Questions are red flags, and making the neighbor aware that you have questions, but in a friendly manner and being open is a direction that can work wonders.

ICE, like a lot of what you normally post, but the barking about a state that has 2A rights not squashed does not mean a thing about how one is conceived or interacts. I find people to be more polite and open to listening and restrained with their actions, than places like CA who have made people become skittish because of over restrictions and concerns of backlash.

I have worked for over 35 years in a small geographical, but heavily populated area, ranging from NYC to eastern PA, which when I was located in western NJ, is only an hour drive in each direction. Sorta like I would guess to give an example more in your area, I estimate, Ventura to Riverside and based in the middle, and by a scale of 80/20, and covering 3 states with different regs in that same distance, the people I had the most concerns with were in the most restrictive 2A areas, like NYC and not central/norther eastern PA.

But hey, you always need to be on your guard, otherwise, do the neighborly thing and just call the police and the local building department and let the chips fall. Then what are the odds of having a simple and neighborly conversation or relationship moving forward....

 

[Birmingplumb]

23 years and not a word spoken between neighbors? crazy

Story behind that not spoken----we closed on house and moved in in summer 2000 then went up north next weekend....17 yer old daught put "party" on internet and 200 cars showed up I am told....wifes diamond ring stolen and other bad stuff.....next day upon return the neighbor at this house comes to door and knocks on it, I answer---"come on in" she refused --I apologized for the party and thats the last we spoke. Wife joked " we are the dreaded nextdoor neighbors people fear will move in". But before this happened the first day I rolled the basketball hoop onto the court and played b ball with his teens. Mom must have warned them after party cause they never even waved for 20 plus years. I work union and am a Christian and this party was a kid error one time..Now that might be crazy not talking but it was not me it was their coldness.

 

[ICE]

Not sure where the 23-years of non-contact comes from

this is the very first time he has spoken to me in 23 years

Questions are red flags, and making the neighbor aware that you have questions, but in a friendly manner and being open is a direction that can work wonders.

I have no problem with that. It's just not me.

I suppose I am not coordinated enough to join the dance. My approach would be straight up, "What's up?" If I have a need to know, know I will. Fishing with questions like: "What type of reinforcement did the designer or contractor say you needed?" Well that comes out, "Let's have a look at the engineering" cause like I said, I got a need to know.

I would not mention whether a permit was obtained. That's between him and his government and none of my business. You should expect no less from him.

 

[tbz]

ICE,

Everyone's job brings forth their opinion, inspectors for the most part deal in straight up talk and solutions.

As we know politicians are the complete opposite.

Then there are those who live in between, and as a consultant who deals mainly with clients that call you when the $h!t hits the fan. Not before, you get to see things a different way.

Thus, you tend to think like a chess player 15 moves ahead, with different options for when they do this you do that. Rather than here is the fact, live with it.

So what are the options,

• Do nothing.
• Report the work to the authorities period.
• Try to work things out with hard but softened questions first, before sticking you head in the sand or tossing a grenade?

The work being done obviously affects their property, though they might have a strained relationship, and after 23-years the neighbor did talk to them, though short and off beat.

Where I am from that is a window of opportunity possibly, and since it directly affects his property, why not ask the personal questions its not like he lives 5 houses away.

 

[ICE]

Thus, you tend to think like a chess player 15 moves ahead, with different options for when they do this you do that. Rather than here is the fact, live with it.

Calculating people bother me. But only when I am aware. The moment that I discover that a person is on a fishing expedition what with the coy questions..... I don't appreciate being pushed to a place that calls for me to be wary. There might be no ill will directed my way and I still have to wonder.

I much prefer getting to the reason for the calculation.

Believe it or not my direct way about me is one of the few traits that anyone has ever liked about me. I wanted to say “damned few” but bragging is impolite.