LGreene
Registered User
Any time!
Last edited by a moderator:
-
Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades
Water Wall in lieu of Fire Rated Door
- Thread starter liarchitect
- Start date
FM William Burns
Moderator
BB,
NFPA 15 Annex A has some good information on heat vaporization with water for exposure protection.
Builder Bob
Sawhorse
FM --- I would assume that it is still based upon water actually hitting the exposure to provide the cooling off effect and still would allow heat transfer thru the water acting as the water wall?
FM William Burns
Moderator
Yep, and I may have to do some testing with purple FC to see if it has an effect
BTW....I like that you called it what it is "curtain"
BTW....I like that you called it what it is "curtain"
Builder Bob
Sawhorse
Thanks FM.... So in summary, a water curtain wall must have a surface to hit in order to act as a barrier........ sprinkler heads with a case opening are almost worthless.
FM William Burns
Moderator
That's the way I've always looked at it. If used they are required to be deisgned with specific heads on both sides of the "glass" or object and they can't just spray water in the opening area. They have to empinge at a certain application rate and coverage area on the glass or object being protected and as permitted.
Last edited by a moderator:
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
* * *
FMWB ( and others ),
Is there a section in the IBC or IFC that I can review for the "water
curtain wall" requirements? I have a project where the contractor
is proposing to use sprinkler heads on both sides of a non-rated
sheet of glass, in a rated Exit Passgeway. Section 1021.3
[ in the `06 IBC ] requires a min. of 1 hr. fire resistance
rating of the walls, ceiling & floors.
At this early stage of Plans Review ...they are only ' PROPOSING
TO USE IT '. I am seeking to find out if it is allowable,
...more details, etc. Thanks!
* * *
FMWB ( and others ),
Is there a section in the IBC or IFC that I can review for the "water
curtain wall" requirements? I have a project where the contractor
is proposing to use sprinkler heads on both sides of a non-rated
sheet of glass, in a rated Exit Passgeway. Section 1021.3
[ in the `06 IBC ] requires a min. of 1 hr. fire resistance
rating of the walls, ceiling & floors.
At this early stage of Plans Review ...they are only ' PROPOSING
TO USE IT '. I am seeking to find out if it is allowable,
...more details, etc. Thanks!
* * *
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. J
Silver Member
See the first couple of responses to this thread regarding the Tyco WS sprinkler. http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-2397.pdf This is the only way to create a fire resistance rated wall with non-rated glass.
I really wish people would stop calling for a "water curtain" in this application. "Water curtain" implies a series of open sprinklers controlled through a deluge valve. The Tyco WS sprinkler is simply a QR sprinkler with a special deflector to evenly coat the protected glass. It is still is a closed sprinkler with a fusible element, only one goes off at a time - just like any other sprinkler. MacGyver can't use a match to set them all off.
I really wish people would stop calling for a "water curtain" in this application. "Water curtain" implies a series of open sprinklers controlled through a deluge valve. The Tyco WS sprinkler is simply a QR sprinkler with a special deflector to evenly coat the protected glass. It is still is a closed sprinkler with a fusible element, only one goes off at a time - just like any other sprinkler. MacGyver can't use a match to set them all off.
I think it was already established that you cannot use the so called "water curtain". It is only allowed in an Atrium condition. It is not an alternate to the protected EXIT Passageway protection. That item is a part of your "EXIT", either before or after the EXIT. It has to have the same rating and requirements as the "EXIT". In my opinion the Water Curtain is not allowed and has issues with glazing horizontal bars that hinder water flow down the glazing.
Coug Dad
Platinum Member
The Tyco UL Listed and ES Report documented sprinkler and glass assembly would be acceptable in that condition.
Christian Huls
Registered User
What you are asking about is NOT in the IBC, but it IS found in NFPA 13. It's referred to as a water curtain (see NFPA 2016, section 11.3.3).
It allows you to install sprinklers 6 feet apart along a rated wall (on both sides) where there are unrated openings such as unrated glass or doors.
It allows you to install sprinklers 6 feet apart along a rated wall (on both sides) where there are unrated openings such as unrated glass or doors.
Maybe You can answer a question:::
The question is a backwards question
Exterior projection 8.15.7 2016
If you are presented with drawings showing a combustible walk canopy connected to the building and over four feet.
If asked and they were willing to take out a section so it is not directly connected to the building,, how big of gap would you be comfortable with??
one inch, one foot, three feet or other gap?? to basically call in "separated"
For example this picture, the canopy is attached to the building and is combustible:::
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2...
What separation would you be comfortable with?