• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

What Voltage is This?

ICE said:
300.4(G) Insulated Fittings. Where raceways contain 4 AWG or larger insulated circuit conductors, and these conductors enter a cabinet, a box, an enclosure, or a raceway, the conductors shall be protected by an identified fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface, unless the conductors are separated from the fitting or raceway by identified insulating material that is securely fastened in place.
Exception: Where threaded hubs or bosses that are an integral part of a cabinet, box, enclosure, or raceway provide a smoothly rounded or flared entry for conductors.
Conduit bushings constructed wholly of insulating material shall not be used to secure a fitting or raceway. The insulating fitting or insulating material shall have a temperature rating not less than the insulation temperature rating of the installed conductors.

Does that apply to the bottom connector and the rear chase nipple?

So what exactly did the voltage have to do with the violation? Ya know, there’s a lot of cranial vibration associated with riding a motorcycle.
Click to expand...
The bottom fitting needs a bushing, the back chase nipple does not.

The point of this was that sometimes inspectors write up violations that are not violations such as identification of voltage for this 208/120 with color code when there is no other voltage present in the building. What is good practice and what is a code violation are two different things. I basically trolled my own forum to generate a good conversation and it worked.
 
jar546 said:
The bottom fitting needs a bushing, the back chase nipple does not.

The point of this was that sometimes inspectors write up violations that are not violations such as identification of voltage for this 208/120 with color code when there is no other voltage present in the building. What is good practice and what is a code violation are two different things. I basically trolled my own forum to generate a good conversation and it worked.
Click to expand...
The following exception would seem to support your position:
Exception: Where threaded hubs or bosses that are an integral part of a cabinet, box, enclosure, or raceway provide a smoothly rounded or flared entry for conductors.

However it is also a reason to refute your position. Not all chase nipples have a smoothly rounded or flared entry. It is not absolutely obvious from the picture but it appears that a rounded or flared entry is missing.

what voltage is this? 2.jpeg
 
Last edited:
jar546 said:
OK, I've let this fester long enough (on purpose to drive conversation) There are a few things to digest on this one.

1) This is 208/120V 3-phase for an RTU
2) The voltage is not marked because the entire building is 208/120, therefore they don't have to comply with NEC 215.12(C)(1)
3) The chase nipple in the back is compliant
4) The bottom connector IS missing a bushing due to the size of the wire. See NEC 300.4 - The only violation in this pic
5) No bonding bushing is required on the bottom because it is 208/120V

I don't see any other issues. Do you?

As much as we would like to see tape used to identify the ungrounded conductors, we cannot require it. That is the main point. I recently had an inspector write this up when, in fact, as much as it was a great idea and practice, it was not required.
Click to expand...
I see 3 "Hots", a green ground and NO NEUTRAL W/O the neutral, How can it be 120/208 ?
 
Genduct said:
I see 3 "Hots", a green ground and NO NEUTRAL W/O the neutral, How can it be 120/208 ?
Click to expand...
It only serves line-to-line motor load for the RTU, so no neutral is used or required. Kinda like a 240 volt residential water heater, you don't bring a neutral to it because it doesn't need one, you hook up two 120 volt wires from opposite phases and power it that way.
 
Pcinspector1 said:
So the code violation is "not installed in a workman like manner" or was there a modification to the connections using a nut and washer instead of lugs?
Click to expand...
I very saldom quote myself but I asked a question in regards to the lugs being connected by a nut and washer that didn't look right to me in the pic. I recently viewed a newer siemans disconnect and noticed that they make the lug connections with a screw, so as Rosanna Rosanna Dana sez....Never mind!
 
Beniah Naylor said:
It only serves line-to-line motor load for the RTU, so no neutral is used or required. Kinda like a 240 volt residential water heater, you don't bring a neutral to it because it doesn't need one, you hook up two 120 volt wires from opposite phases and power it that way.
Click to expand...
I think I see 250 Amp Fuses in the pic. Looks like the main cabinet, right after the service , or at least it is a Pretty big Feeder, so if this goes to a panelboard that has ALL THE RTU's or motor loads that don't need a Neutral, then I guess I can see that. But just for One RTU makes it pretty damn big

Don't doubt your word, Just has me scratching my head is all I am saying
 
Genduct said:
I think I see 250 Amp Fuses in the pic. Looks like the main cabinet, right after the service , or at least it is a Pretty big Feeder, so if this goes to a panelboard that has ALL THE RTU's or motor loads that don't need a Neutral, then I guess I can see that. But just for One RTU makes it pretty damn big

Don't doubt your word, Just has me scratching my head is all I am saying
Click to expand...
20 ton RTU
 
No neutral so no orange tape required on it, 250V fuses 600V are longer, although that never stopped some folks, no bushing on a fitting with #4 or larger conductors, and no bond screw on the neutral being used for grounding, that omission is really common.
 
Genduct said:
I think I see 250 Amp Fuses in the pic. Looks like the main cabinet, right after the service , or at least it is a Pretty big Feeder, so if this goes to a panelboard that has ALL THE RTU's or motor loads that don't need a Neutral, then I guess I can see that. But just for One RTU makes it pretty damn big

Don't doubt your word, Just has me scratching my head is all I am saying
Click to expand...
Just Realized
OH DUH 250A fuses because sized for Locked Rotor Amps Not normal amp draw

Didn't know it was a motor load, Saw the large fuses and small wires and thought it had to be higher voltage
Was using my Carpenter brain. Don't do electrical all the time.
 
For 250A fuses to be used it would have to be a 400A switch, they will not fit a 200A switch, and the switch too small for 400A.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top