when are R-2 manual fire alarms not required?

[MelMeiners]

I have a plans examiner making vague statements that the manual fire alarms in my R-2 occupancy project cannot be eliminated unless we have a full NFPA 13 system. He's unwilling to cite the code section that indicates this, and I cannot find it.

The project meets all the requirements to be exempt from manual fire alarms per OSSC 907.2.9.1 (IBC 907.2.9.1).

1. There are no dwelling units above the 3rd story. (The building is only 3 stories)
2. There are no dwelling units below the level of discharge.
3. There are 15 total dwelling units in the project.
​

Does anyone know if this code requirement exists, per his statement?
thank you

 

[cda]

Will look

I think he means pull stations are not required

 

[RLGA]

Per the three conditions that require a manual alarm and your situation relating to those three conditions, I don't see that a manual fire alarm is required. If he's interpreting that "three or more stories above the lowest level of exit discharge" means a 3-story building, then he is mistaken. A 3-story building has two stories above the lowest level of exit discharge.

Even if it did require a manual alarm, there are two exceptions that may apply (Exceptions 2 and 3) if an NFPA 13 sprinkler (903.3.1.1) or an NFPA 13R (903.3.1.2) is installed.

 

[cda]

I have a plans examiner making vague statements that the manual fire alarms in my R-2 occupancy project cannot be eliminated unless we have a full NFPA 13 system. He's unwilling to cite the code section that indicates this, and I cannot find it.

The project meets all the requirements to be exempt from manual fire alarms per OSSC 907.2.9.1 (IBC 907.2.9.1).

1. There are no dwelling units above the 3rd story. (The building is only 3 stories)
2. There are no dwelling units below the level of discharge.
3. There are 15 total dwelling units in the project.
​

Does anyone know if this code requirement exists, per his statement?
thank you

No matter what the fire sprinkler system is required to be monitored.

Maybe that is the confusion.

Or there is a local/ state amendment.

 

[cda]

1. 1.Any dwelling unit or sleeping unit is located three or more stories above the lowest level of exit discharge.
   
   
   Now that is an interesting concept
   
   STORY. That portion of a building included between the upper surface of a floor and the upper surface of the floor or roof next above (see “Basement,” “Building height,” “Grade plane” and “Mezzanine”). A story is measured as the vertical distance from top to top of two successive tiers of beams or finished floor surfaces and, for the topmost story, from the top of the floor finish to the top of the ceiling joists or, where there is not a ceiling, to the top of the roof rafters.
   
   
   So if you are standing on the third story, you are not on the third story?
   

 

[RLGA]

1. 1.Any dwelling unit or sleeping unit is located three or more stories above the lowest level of exit discharge.
   
   
   Now that is an interesting concept
   
   STORY. That portion of a building included between the upper surface of a floor and the upper surface of the floor or roof next above (see “Basement,” “Building height,” “Grade plane” and “Mezzanine”). A story is measured as the vertical distance from top to top of two successive tiers of beams or finished floor surfaces and, for the topmost story, from the top of the floor finish to the top of the ceiling joists or, where there is not a ceiling, to the top of the roof rafters.
   
   
   So if you are standing on the third story, you are not on the third story?

You're on the third story of the building, but you're also on the second story above the level of exit discharge.

 

[RLGA]

To further explain and justify what I stated, this type of requirement is also used for the use of an elevator as a required accessible means of egress per Section 1007.2.1 (2012 IBC). This states an elevator is required to be one of the accessible means of egress if an accessible floor "is four or more stories above or below a level of exit discharge." The Commentary explains it this way:

On a flat site, “buildings with four or more stories
above the level of exit discharge” would typically be a
five-story building. The level of exit discharge is the
entire first story level (not merely the plane or level of
the first floor); therefore, the fifth floor is the fourth
story above the level of exit discharge.​

 

[MelMeiners]

1. 1.Any dwelling unit or sleeping unit is located three or more stories above the lowest level of exit discharge.
   
   
   Now that is an interesting concept
   
   STORY. That portion of a building included between the upper surface of a floor and the upper surface of the floor or roof next above (see “Basement,” “Building height,” “Grade plane” and “Mezzanine”). A story is measured as the vertical distance from top to top of two successive tiers of beams or finished floor surfaces and, for the topmost story, from the top of the floor finish to the top of the ceiling joists or, where there is not a ceiling, to the top of the roof rafters.
   
   
   So if you are standing on the third story, you are not on the third story?

The level of discharge is the first story. The requirement says three stories above that....the first story. So that would mean the requirement begins at the fourth story.

 

[MelMeiners]

No matter what the fire sprinkler system is required to be monitored.

Maybe that is the confusion.

Or there is a local/ state amendment.

I think his confusion is coming from Table 705.8 for allowable opening and protection. We have 2 conditions where we exceed the allowable openings with an NFPA 13R system. We intend to correct that, and I've told the plans examiner that. But he appears to be stuck on that issue, and muddying it up with the fire alarm and full NFPA 13 system requirements.

 

[cda]

Ok I give

We alarm everything, so have not had to deal with it.

Fire sprinkler system still requires monitoring