When is an area a hallway?

[Dennis]

I ran into an interesting situation today and I am including a very basic drawing. The area in question is where you come thru that opening- no door. The opening is not 36" nor is it 36" for the 2' or so past that opening. One side has a half wall while the other has a full wall.

The architect stated that code requires 36" for a hallway but was not certain if that transition area would be compliant. What say you? The distance between the half wall and the full wall is about 34.5" for about 2'.

 

[gbhammer]

Doesn't look like a hallway.

 

[globe trekker]

Another term that could be used is an "entryway"! And I also agree with gbjammer, that

does not look like any (traditional) "hallway" that I have ever seen.

Can your architect please submit a code / standard for you to review that says that is

a hallway? Section R311.3, in the 2006 IRC defines the min. width, or did the architect

actually define it that way on the plans. If it was stated that way on the plans, then

it is short about 1.5".

.

 

[Dennis]

That was my assumption. Globe trekker did you get my pm

 

[globe trekker]

Yes, I did! Thank you! I am about to leave work, but will try to respond to

your reply tomorrow! We're all good Dennis!

.

 

[Dennis]

Thanks for the response but I guess I still would like to know at what point is that a hall. Is there a definition for hallway. I did not find one in my version and was wondering at what point that area would be required to be 36". Any input?

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Dictionary; 1. a corridor. 2. an entrance hall. In the IRC hallway is found under the means of egress section and serves as a corridor to an exit IMO. For it to be a hall the width would have to be at least 36" wide.

Code commentary:

Hallways must be a minimum of 3 ft. wide to accommodate moving furniture into rooms off the hallway and for safe egress from the structure. The code uses the term "hallway" instead of corridors to avoid confusion with the IBC. In the IBC, "corridor" is a defined term, and corridors may have a required fire-resistance rating.

Francis

 

[Dennis]

Obviously, there are plenty of areas to exit and that entry is not even required since there are many other means to exit the space. So it appears 36" is not an issue

 

[brudgers]

Dictionary; 1. a corridor. 2. an entrance hall. In the IRC hallway is found under the means of egress section and serves as a corridor to an exit IMO. For it to be a hall the width would have to be at least 36" wide. Code commentary: Hallways must be a minimum of 3 ft. wide to accommodate moving furniture into rooms off the hallway and for safe egress from the structure. The code uses the term "hallway" instead of corridors to avoid confusion with the IBC. In the IBC, "corridor" is a defined term, and corridors may have a required fire-resistance rating. Francis

I don't see any rooms into which furniture might be moved off that "hallway." Then again, I am having trouble determining the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin this morning.

 

[Big Mac]

I don't beleive term Hallway is used in the IRC ro the IBC. The term used int he IBC is corridor.

1st option) Where terms are not defined in this code such terms shall have the meaning as ascribed to them as in other code publications of the International Code Council. R201.3.

2nd option) Where terms are not defined throught the methods authorized by this section, such terms shall have the ordinarily accepted menaing such as the context applies.

Going to the definition of corridor in the IBC, it states that a corridor is an enclosed exit access component that defines and provides a path of egress travel to an exit. Sounds pretty close to what you have shown.

Typically this access width is required to be 36" clear dimension in a residence. Section 1018.2 in the IBC states that the required width of a corridor shall be unobstructed. The exception to that is for code compliant doors.

Unless there is a specific exemption in the IRC that allows a portion of a corridor to be less than 36" clear width, you may have a problem.

Don't make the mistake of assuming the term corridor only applies to rated corridors. That is not the case. Corridors may be rated or non-rated depending on circumstance.

 

[Dennis]

Mac I don't see it as a corridor as there are plenty of access or egress areas in the area. One does not need to go thru the opening to exit the house. Door opening can be 32" inches in the interior of a dwelling but this is nothing more than an access to the dining room rather than going around the table and the low wall. There are exit off to the left of this area as well as stairs in the dining are to the upper level.

FWIW, the AHJ has agreed that he would not consider this a hall. Again it seems unclear when a hallway is called a hallway. If the wall were 8' high on both sides for 2', 4' 8' etc. At what point is it a hall. Without a definition I don't see how this is a hall and it does not seem to fit the corridor definition. It is not enclosed on one side nor is it needed for egress.

 

[Big Mac]

I must admit it is a bit difficult for an old man like me to ascertain exactly what is being portrayed here. I was assuming that the large upright oblong white figure was the exit door from the house. Apparently I was mistaken, because if the that were the case, it appears for all the world that the exit pathof travel from the living room travels through the area in question.

 

[Dennis]

I must admit it is a bit difficult for an old man like me to ascertain exactly what is being portrayed here. I was assuming that the large upright oblong white figure was the exit door from the house. Apparently I was mistaken, because if the that were the case, it appears for all the world that the exit pathof travel from the living room travels through the area in question.

Sorry---That is a little closet with display dishes etc. Here is a little more detail

 

[Dennis]

 

[steveray]

Whenever the AHJ says it is.....or as long as there is at least one compliant "egress" path this one does not matter.....there is nothing in my IRC that even gives a minimum door size, for the other than the 1 required egress door...so I certainly would not stress about that....

Thanks for the response but I guess I still would like to know at what point is that a hall. Is there a definition for hallway. I did not find one in my version and was wondering at what point that area would be required to be 36". Any input?

 

[Rio]

Again it seems unclear when a hallway is called a hallway. If the wall were 8' high on both sides for 2', 4' 8' etc. At what point is it a hall. Without a definition I don't see how this is a hall and it does not seem to fit the corridor definition. It is not enclosed on one side nor is it needed for egress.

I think the observation made above that as long as there is a compliant egress then it would not be a hallway. Conversely I would think that even if it were only 1' or even less in length, if it is the means of egress it should be 36" clear and could be considered to be a hallway.

 

[Big Mac]

Given the revised detail, it would appear that there is no need for the opening under discussion at all. The desk (table) could be treated as though it were nothing more than a counter between rooms which is a very common design. This counter just happens to have an opening that you can walk through.

 

[Architect1281]

A hallway is NOT REQUIRED to exist but when it does then it is required to be the appropriate width.

In a wide open plan if you disagree put duct tape on floor 36" space between.

 

[Dennis]

A hallway is NOT REQUIRED to exist but when it does then it is required to be the appropriate width.In a wide open plan if you disagree put duct tape on floor 36" space between.

I do not understand your response. Sounds like you think this area should be 36" but I don't understand the second sentence.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

An attempt to humor; can display the route on the floor with duct tape as a hallway through interconnecting spaces IMO. :roll:

 

[ICE]

An attempt to humor; can display the route on the floor with duct tape as a hallway through interconnecting spaces IMO. :roll:

Les Nessman lived there.

 

[Architect1281]

Dennis did not see my sense of Uma but then I piced up on the avatar - (15 yards)

 

[Dennis]

Dennis did not see my sense of Uma but then I piced up on the avatar - (15 yards)

I guess I didn't but I thought that was what it was supposed to be -- I just didn't get it. Sorry-- I need one of these- but even that probably wouldn't have helped.