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Why We Do Multistory Plumbing Inspections in Condominiums and Multistory Buildings

jar546

jar546

CBO
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
12,930
Location
Not where I really want to be
Apparently the contractor that remodeled the bathroom in the floor above and the inspector who signed off on it were not all that bright. This was just uncovered when the condo below decided to remodel their bathroom. It is a lot harder to fix from below.
IMG_7427.jpg
 
IMG_7427 2.jpg

If my memory still works I would guess that the bands shall be tightened to 65 inch pounds of torque and in this case, listed for both cast iron and plastic. Anything metal rots quick in Florida. I wouldn't know about that big ol hole in the floor above.
 
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That style of rubber coupling is only listed for underground use. The above ground style has a full metal shield and is typically just 2" long.

Cheers, Wayne
 
ICE said:
Why would that be? The example of the above ground model is about a foot to the right.
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I infer (could be wrong) it's because the full metal shield is required for lateral and axial stiffness. In an underground application, if properly backfilled the coupling is supported along its entire length. And in that application the ability to accommodate a small amount of deflection is perhaps a plus rather than a minus. Although shielded versions of the underground style of coupling are also available, and I'm not sure when it appropriate to choose one or the other.

On a plumbing forum I've certainly see examples of an unshielded underground coupling used above grade and having developed a deformation. Either a lateral deflection when installed horizontally and the pipe isn't properly supported on both side of the coupling, or an axial shorting (bulging out) when installed in a stack.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
That style of rubber coupling is only listed for underground use. The above ground style has a full metal shield and is typically just 2" long.

Cheers, Wayne
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I learn something almost every day on this forum. Can you post something that I can use to show to contractors to prove this?
 
Rick18071 said:
I learn something almost every day on this forum. Can you post something that I can use to show to contractors to prove this?
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Looks like PA has adopted the plumbing sections of the IRC. So then the reference for joints between different materials would would be IRC P3003.13 or IPC 705.16, as applicable. Or for the UPC the reference is UPC 705.10

up.codes

Chapter 30: Sanitary Drainage, Residential Code 2018 of Pennsylvania | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction
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up.codes

Chapter 7: Sanitary Drainage, Plumbing Code 2018 of Pennsylvania | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction
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up.codes

Chapter 7: Sanitary Drainage, California Plumbing Code 2022 | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction
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Those sections reference ASTM C1173, C1460, or C1461. C1173 is titled "Standard Specification for Flexible Transition Couplings for Underground Piping Systems," while C1460 is titled "Standard Specification for Shielded Transition Couplings for Use with Dissimilar DWV Pipe and Fittings Above Ground." C1461 covers both use cases but to my understanding products listed under it are relatively uncommon.

Then if you look at the listings on the ~4" long unshielded couplings (or even their shielded versions), you find they are only listed to C1173. The ~2" long shielded couplings are listed to C1460. E.g.

Fernco: Flexible Couplings for Plumbing and Drain Stock | Fernco - US

www.fernco.com www.fernco.com

Proflex Couplings | Fernco - US

www.fernco.com www.fernco.com

Now for the case of joining the same material to itself (e.g. you have to cut out some ABS or PVC to rework a section that is between two fixed ends, so you use (2) rubber couplings without a change of material), the reference would be earlier in the same section in each case. Generally there's language like "installed in accordance to manufacturer's instructions." I haven't reread all those sections, but I seem to recall one of them has an allowance to use No-Hub couplings for plastic to plastic joints. [Unless that was a state-specific amendment I'm remembering.]

And to clarify, the coupling on the right in the picture is a No-Hub coupling listed for connecting cast iron to cast iron (presumably has its own ASTM standard that I didn't look up), not an ASTM C1460 coupling. You can tell because of the corrugated shield, rather than a flat shield.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Without knowing the whole story, I would think that pipe penetrating the floor system should be noncombustible, tiightly fit, and fire stopped with an appropriate material.
 
@ @ = @ @

Rembo, can you please post some pics. of "the
fix", after everything has been corrected to a
compliant condition ?..........Thanks !

@ @ + @ @
 
The way that it was headed out is an indication that it was a common practice. This being a high-rise condominium building means that there is many such examples. I suppose you can catch them one at a time but once the can is opened the worms will escape. That will cause many of the occupants to question their decision to live there. The suicide rate will increase along with binge eating and drinking.
If you hope to shape your legacy as riding into town to uphold the law of the land at the expense of a harmonious existance, you are on the right track. You should alert the Sheriff that domestic violence and vandalism will be trending up.
 
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Plumb-bob said:
Without knowing the whole story, I would think that pipe penetrating the floor system should be noncombustible, tiightly fit, and fire stopped with an appropriate material.
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Canuck chiming in, but you can have combustible drain pipe penetrating a fire-rated assembly in a number of ULC-accepted fire-stop systems. The system invariably features a fire stop collar.
 
I'm confused. As bill notes it looks like there is another slab on top of the rectangular opening. Also, that rectangular opening is original. Did the reno above remove a duct and replace it with a pipe?
 
jar546 said:
Part of the repair will be a fire stop collar in addition to grouting the very large opening.
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If it is done correctly, would there be an intumescent collar on both sides of the repair? What's going to hold the patch in place? In high rise construction an architect is usually the one to choose a fire stop method..

What kind of shower pan is that?
 
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