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window required?

B

BSSTG

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
729
Location
Seadrift, Tx.
Greetings,

Plans for new house show studio workroom. Only door opening to studio is from interior of attached garage. Studio has no other egress, no window. If there's a fire in the garage, they can't get out. Since it's not a sleeping room emergency egress is not required. Minimum glazing is not required either since they have AC and artificial light.

I say that's a really bad idea not to have another way out of this workroom but I don't see where the 2012 IRC will require a window in that room.

Comments?

BSSTG
 
Seem like egress door is required

SECTION R311 MEANS OF EGRESS

R311.1 Means of egress.

All dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage.

DWELLING. Any building that contains one or two dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that are occupied for living purposes.
 
The room is labeled appropriately, no egress directly to exterior required.

I can think of several homes with this arrangement or a bathroom without a window, I know plenty of people spending more time in the bathroom,
 
R303.1 Habitable rooms. All habitable rooms shall have an

aggregate glazing area of not less than 8 percent of the floor

area of such rooms. Natural ventilation shall be through windows,

doors, louvers or other approved openings to the outdoor

air. Such openings shall be provided with ready access

or shall otherwise be readily controllable by the building

occupants. The minimum openable area to the outdoors shall

be 4 percent of the floor area being ventilated.

HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living,

sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets,

halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered

habitable spaces.

A work space with only one way out through a garage is not for me. I had such an arrangement once and kept a fire axe handy. I had that same ax in a third floor bedroom at a condominium. There was no way that I would climb out of the window. Come to think of it, a guy could get shot escaping a fire. Perish the thought.
 
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MtnArch said:
So if this room were labeled as "Storage" (or maybe even "Conditioned Storage") off of the garage you'd still require an exterior window or door?
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Can only review what is submitted and how labeled
 
Best practices say you should, however the code minimum folks imply that if not specifically required it is the owner/use'rs responsibility to self determine the risk he is willing to incur.

If you are a design/builder, requesting and obtaining a waver of liability might be in order.

Logic vs semantics vs $$$'s (what is the a life worth?)
 
R311.1 Means of egress.

All dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage

Seems to say the studio workroom cannot exit through te garage
 
cda said:
Seem like egress door is requiredSECTION R311 MEANS OF EGRESS

R311.1 Means of egress.

All dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage.

DWELLING. Any building that contains one or two dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that are occupied for living purposes.
Click to expand...
I knew there was some requirement on that. I was on my way out the door Friday when this cropped up. I'm sticking to this section as applicable. As a sidebar, I personally have seen several bad house fires start in the garage in just the last couple of years. I would never have such a room where I or my children lived that does not have adequate egress. It scares me at the though of getting fried in a fire.

thanks

BS
 
It comes down to what is a studio. Is a studio considered habitable space? The definition of habitable space provided by the code (A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking) does not support the the contention that a studio is habitable space.

There will be something other than living, sleeping, eating or cooking taking place. There could be many activities such as painting, sculpting, exercising, potting plants, pottery, photography, audio recording etc. None of which are within the definition of habitable space.

For the record, I agree with your decision to force a door or window. I just don't think it's legal.

In SoCal the room would have a good chance of becoming a bedroom as the garage becomes a rental unit. I have seen many...before and after a fire in the garage.
 
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ICE said:
It comes down to what is a studio. Is a studio considered habitable space? The definition of habitable space provided by the code (A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking) does not support the the contention that a studio is habitable space. There will be something other than living, sleeping, eating or cooking taking place. There could be many activities such as painting, sculpting, exercising, potting plants, pottery, photography, audio recording etc. None of which are within the definition of habitable space.

For the record, I agree with your decision to force a door or window. I just don't think it's legal.

In SoCal the room would have a good chance of becoming a bedroom as the garage becomes a rental unit. I have seen many...before and after a fire in the garage.
Click to expand...
dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage.

Does not say "Habiatble space" says "dwelling"
 
cda said:
dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage. Does not say "Habiatble space" says "dwelling"
Click to expand...
DWELLING. Any building that contains one or two dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that are occupied for living purposes.

DWELLING UNIT. A single unit providing complete independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking and sanitation.

A dwelling does include more than habitable space...and that would be a bathroom. Let me ask a question. Is a garage a part of a dwelling? Would a room used for art that is attached to a garage which is in turn, attached to a dwelling also be part of the dwelling?
 
Yep just cannot exit from the art room through a garage

Just like someone's home office room that was not originally a bedroom.

Or a media room for example
 
Alrighty then, let's detach the garage from the dwelling and add an art room. Is that art room part of the dwelling?
 
Art studio, is it a habitable room?

A question for the AHJ.

I say yes it is.

Habitable spaces require windows natural light and ventilation.
 
mark handler said:
Art studio, is it a habitable room?A question for the AHJ.

I say yes it is.

Habitable spaces require windows natural light and ventilation.
Click to expand...
Hopefully it's not a darkroom for developing photographs. My wife is an artist and we know a few people who still develop their own film as it gives them greater control. I'd agree with ICE on this one. I cannot see how you could consider the studio that is not in the dwelling as part of the dwelling. It's poor design, but not likely illegal.
 
ICE said:
Alrighty then, let's detach the garage from the dwelling and add an art room. Is that art room part of the dwelling?
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I was thinking about this after work Friday and I recall in Pearland we had a builder that put really nice game rooms above detached garages. We required a 1 hour protected stair and exit to the exterior. Wasn't too big of a deal. Saw quite a few of them actually.

BS
 
tmurray said:
Hopefully it's not a darkroom for developing photographs. My wife is an artist and we know a few people who still develop their own film as it gives them greater control. I'd agree with ICE on this one. I cannot see how you could consider the studio that is not in the dwelling as part of the dwelling. It's poor design, but not likely illegal.
Click to expand...
How do you get around """egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage""

With """"

DWELLING. Any building that contains one or two dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that are occupied for living purposes.""""

does not say except for media room, art room, whatever room.

I would say::

Write the plan review comment : studio workroom cannot exit through garage. And see what reply you get, than go from there.

I would rather question it at plan review, than trying to answer it under oath!! or live at five when something goes wrong!!

and what is a """show studio workroom""" is that where people and familes come in and ge thier picture taken or soemthing, where the occupant level is a little higher??

write the comment, cannot hurt
 
cda said:
How do you get around """egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage""With """"

DWELLING. Any building that contains one or two dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that are occupied for living purposes.""""

does not say except for media room, art room, whatever room.

I would say::

Write the plan review comment : studio workroom cannot exit through garage. And see what reply you get, than go from there.

I would rather question it at plan review, than trying to answer it under oath!! or live at five when something goes wrong!!

and what is a """show studio workroom""" is that where people and familes come in and ge thier picture taken or soemthing, where the occupant level is a little higher??

write the comment, cannot hurt
Click to expand...
Typically a show studio workroom is where the art is created for showrooms. There may be one or two clients to see work before it is shown, but it doesn't really affect occupant load that much.

The issue I have is that it's not part of the dwelling unit. If this were sitting in the middle of the house, I can see it, but it is only accessed from the garage.

What about live work units?

You're just as liable by making someone do something they are not required to do under the code as you are by not requiring something that should be required.

For what it's worth, this is not a requirement in Canada. Garages with fewer than 6 vehicles are such a low fire hazard that they are considered part of the house.
 
I take it if the garage is attached to the house and accessed through the house the garage and studio is part of the "dwelling"

If there was a bedroom attached to the back of the house with no access into the main house, would it be part of the "dwelling"?

Write the comment it cannot hurt
 
I take it if the garage is attached to the house and accessed through the house the garage and studio is part of the "dwelling"

If there was a bedroom attached to the back of the house with no access into the main house, would it be part of the "dwelling"?

Write the comment it cannot hurt
 
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