wireless smokes

[rktect 1]

So I had a person ask me, after I wrote a review comment about the smoke detector requirements, if he could use a wirelessly interconnected smoke detector. I told him to email me the specs. SO he did. Turnes out it is not just wireless but battery operated, except for the initial ac powered one. The rest are battery powered. But, would a wireless interconnected hard wired with battery backup smoke detector system be ok? Is there such a thing?

 

[Coug Dad]

What does the UL Listing say?

 

[fatboy]

What coug dad said, and, what is the project scope?

 

[Yankee]

Residential, we permit the " interconnected" part to be wireless but all units must be hardwired for power w/battery backup. This allows retrofits to hardwire smokes into rooms from grabbing an existing circuit (like from an outlet and run up a wall) but doesn't require a wire be run between each and every unit (which is the hard part in a retrofit).

 

[TimNY]

Residential, we permit the " interconnected" part to be wireless but all units must be hardwired for power w/battery backup. This allows retrofits to hardwire smokes into rooms from grabbing an existing circuit (like from an outlet and run up a wall) but doesn't require a wire be run between each and every unit (which is the hard part in a retrofit).

I require the same. If you look up smoke alarm in the definitions it says it receives it's primary power from the building. It does not elaborate on how they are interconnected.

I saw this same system and failed it. Electrically powered brain in the basement and all wireless/battery operated elsewhere. Excellent system to comply with the Property Maintenance Code if no work is being done, but otherwise not appropriate.

 

[rktect 1]

I'm going to ask another question.

If, after a plan review in which they owners say that their house already has smokes in the bedrooms, on in the hall and one on each floor, you go and start your inspections, and you notice that in the house is one hardwired smoke and the rest are these battery operated and wirelesly connected smokes, do you then tell them that their house is required to be redone in accoradance with the smoke detector requirement in the 2006 IRC?

It's a what if scenario? Fun.

 

[Yankee]

Thankfully hasn't happened yet! But, in the future I'd look to see the age of the units as they don't last forever and need to be replaced (aha! an opportunity to get it right!). Technically, work rising to the level of requiring a permit (minus exceptions) they would be required to re-do. Again, glad it has not come up yet. My gut is I'd let it go.

 

[peach]

2009 IRC is going to require interconnected, hardwired, battery backup smoke detectors complying with new construction any time a permit is "required" - with a few exceptions (exterior work only).. we need to figure out how to do it before 2009 kicks in.

 

[GHRoberts]

It is amazing how my wireless router and network and my cell phone work without problems. Yet we think that smoke detectors need to be hard wired.

 

[fatboy]

Well George, part of me wants to agree with you, but then I think about my spotty cell phone coverage sometimes, even my home cordless phones have their moments.......where as the electrical grid is pretty darned dependable these days........and depending on someone replacing batteries..........well?

 

[fatboy]

Well George, part of me wants to agree with you, but then I think about my spotty cell phone coverage sometimes, even my home cordless phones have their moments.......where as the electrical grid is pretty darned dependable these days........and depending on someone replacing batteries..........well?

 

[Uncle Bob]

I remember when airplanes flying over neighborhoods would open automatic garage doors; and teens would drive around neighborhoods opening other folk's garage doors with their parents remote opener. Now, they will probably start driving around and setting off smoke alarms at 2 o'clock in the morning.

Everyone who is going to be adopting, or has already adopted the 2009 IRC, should read Section R314, Smoke Alarms carefully.

Not only is the 09 one third thicker than the 06; just about every page has that dreaded black line in the margin (signifying a code change).

Keep your nose in the books,

Uncle Bob

 

[Yankee]

I feel that the 2009 is LESS stringent in this respect than the 2006. It lists exceptions to the "building permit" rule that the 2006 does not list.

 

[TimNY]

deleted (duplicate)

 

[TimNY]

I'm going to ask another question.If, after a plan review in which they owners say that their house already has smokes in the bedrooms, on in the hall and one on each floor, you go and start your inspections, and you notice that in the house is one hardwired smoke and the rest are these battery operated and wirelesly connected smokes, do you then tell them that their house is required to be redone in accoradance with the smoke detector requirement in the 2006 IRC?

It's a what if scenario? Fun.

I don't have the 2006 books yet, but I'll reference the 2003. If 2006 has different wording, my apologies.

2003 PMC 704.2 applies. They shall install single or multiple station smoke alarms in the required locations. Definition of same states primary power received from the building wiring. Since you are doing a plan review, I assume work is being performed, therefore the exception for battery powered does not apply.

I would direct them to install hard-wired, battery backed-up and interconnected smoke alarms. They may interconnect wired or wireless.

JMHO

EDIT: In re-reading, I am not sure if the question is since it was not brought up at plan review it should not be enforced? Ultimately the responsibility for code compliance lies with the owner and their agents.

 

[rktect 1]

Well, here is the thing. This village will issue a permit and requires the smoke detectors be installed per 2006 IRC requirements. Now lets say you the inspector goes ito the home and you see one smoke in each room, one outisde in the hallway, one on each floor including the basement. Looking up at the ceiling you can see these smokes. Now, do you look in the attic to see if they were hardwired. I ask because I am looking at the cut sheet of the wireless non hard wired smoke detector as well as the hardwired one and they are identical. So I ask what inspectors do? Do you physically go and look for the hardwiring and interconnection when you enter someones house?

 

[Yankee]

I ask.

One can also flip the breaker(s) and push the button (test) if need be, I have never had the need be to check if they were hardwired (maybe I have rose colored glasses?) . . . . you may not be able to tell if they are powered by building instead of battery by looking in the attic, each unit may just be wired fronm a local circuit.

 

[TimNY]

Well, here is the thing. This village will issue a permit and requires the smoke detectors be installed per 2006 IRC requirements. Now lets say you the inspector goes ito the home and you see one smoke in each room, one outisde in the hallway, one on each floor including the basement. Looking up at the ceiling you can see these smokes. Now, do you look in the attic to see if they were hardwired. I ask because I am looking at the cut sheet of the wireless non hard wired smoke detector as well as the hardwired one and they are identical. So I ask what inspectors do? Do you physically go and look for the hardwiring and interconnection when you enter someones house?

From the AC powered unit manual: "The green Power On indicator should be lit when the alarm is operating from AC power"

From the DC (battery) powered unit: "The greed LED will illuminate as described below under the following conditions: STANDBY CONDITION - The LED will flash approximately every 10 seconds"

That's how I pick them out. No steady LED, it's usually battery powered.

 

[rktect 1]

cool beans timNY

 

[Yankee]

cool beans timNY

ditto fridgid legumes