non required inspections

[Mr. Inspector]

I just started working as the Building Code Official for a township that has apparently been requiring permits that the UCC has excepted for a long time for residential. The previous BCO was doing these inspections. The township has no ordinance requiring these permits or has any changes to the UCC. I pointed out to the township manager that these things are excepted from permits and showed him the sections in the UCC. . But I don't want to make waves, I just started here. So I'll do want they want me to do and go out and do the (exempted)inspections. I am required to inspect complying with the UCC. So if I see something not to code do I make them repair it or just leave it go? What would you do?

Examples: Two patios with nonconforming natural stone steps between them. Finished basement with ceiling too low. Finished basement with no insulation. Bedroom in basement with no emergency escape. Deck under 30" with a nonconforming stairway.

The UCC (Uniform Construction Code) is the law of the land here in PA that adopts the ICC codes and exempts any work on houses that have no structure (load bearing) alterations and decks under 30".

 

[mtlogcabin]

Exemptions from permits is not the same as an exemption from inspections. There should not be a problem doing the inspections. The problem is requiring a permit and collecting fees that the township has no legal authority to do.

I would draft a memo to the manager and copy the township attorney with a question asking if you are interpreting the different UCC laws with the exemption for permits correctly, include copies for their review. Remember you are new so you are just asking because you think the previous BO may have been unaware of the UCC requirements. Don't point fingers, assign blame or tell those above you they have been wrong. If it is determined that things need to change then change them. If it is determined that they want to continue then you should have your answer in writing. Take a copy home for your "personal" file. It might be your get out of jail card when the state starts asking questions.

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[tmurray]

Even though things are exempt from getting a permit does not allow them to not build to the requirements of the code.

I started with my municipality 5 years ago and the inspector before me was lackluster at best. Whenever I found a discrepancy, I would report it to the town engineer and ask how they would like it handled. Generally, if you say this is how we were doing it this is how it should be done based on my interpretation of the law/code you should be fine.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

That all seems awfully subjective.

So how does it work? If I don't need a permit how is a building official involved?

Brent

 

[north star]

% ~ % ~ %

"That all seems awfully subjective. So how does it work? If I don't need a permit how is a building official involved? Brent"

Zoning issues comes to mind........Also, non-required permitted projects,still needs the AHJ to approve, monitor, etc.



% ~ % ~ %

 

[ICE]

% ~ % ~ %Also, non-required permitted projects,

still needs the AHJ to approve, monitor, etc.



% ~ % ~ %

If no permit is required, the building dept has no requirements to enforce.

 

[north star]

$ = $

"If no permit is required, the building dept has no requirements to enforce."

One example is, ...they would [ here ] if the dimensional limitations wereexceeded in Section R105.2, [ `12 IRC ], Exceptions 1, 2 & 3.



R105.2 - Work exempt from permit: Permits shall not be required

for the following..........Exemption from permit requirements

of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work

to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code

or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction.



Building:

1. One-story detached accessory structures used as tool and storage

sheds, playhouses and similar uses, provided the floor area does not

exceed 200 square feet (18.58 m2).

2. Fences not over 7 feet (2134 mm) high.

3. Retaining walls that are not over 4

feet (1219 mm) in height measured from the bottom of the footing to

the top of the wall, unless supporting a surcharge."

$ = $

 

[Francis Vineyard]

What we do here is addressed in the Virginia administrative code. Usually permits get issued for work that is exempt upon request to people that have recently moved from out of state and desire an impartial and inexpensive inspection for peace of mind having remodeling done on the kitchen, bathroom, basement, etc.

108.2 Exemptions from application for permit. . . . "when an owner or an owner’s agent requests that a permit be issued for any of the following (activities that are exempt), then a permit shall be issued and any related inspections shall be required."

Guidance are provided in two areas elsewhere in the Va. administrative code;

"The installation of material or equipment, or both, that is neither required nor prohibited shall only be required to comply with the provisions of this code relating to the safe installation of such material or equipment."

"When violations are discovered more than two years after the certificate of occupancy is issued or the date of initial occupancy, whichever occurred later, or more than two years after the approved final inspection for an alteration or renovation, a notice of violation shall only be issued upon advice from the legal counsel of the locality that action may be taken to compel correction of the violation. When compliance can no longer be compelled by prosecution under Section 36-106 of the Code of Virginia, the building official, when requested by the building owner, shall document in writing the existence of the violation noting the edition of the USBC the violation is under."

Attached to the C.O. might be something to the effect "Upon the request of Mr. or Ms. an inspection was made and noted an existing code violation . . . I have contacted the City Attorney Mr. or Ms. per the requirements in the VA USBC Section 115.2.1. The advice I received was to document this and attach it to the Certificate of Occupancy. I have included photographs with the violations outlined.

Hope this is useful.

 

[ADAguy]

Code enforcement is "life Safety" oversight. Whether a project is permit exempt or not, it still must be safe. Not all have the "common sense" to understand this.

 

[ICE]

Code enforcement is "life Safety" oversight. Whether a project is permit exempt or not, it still must be safe. Not all have the "common sense" to understand this.

I can't agree with all of it. If the code exempts something, that is a directive to keep out of it. Some jurisdictions exempt plenty and there is an implied sentiment that the AHJ will leave it alone. What's the point of exempting work from a permit and then requiring inspections? If there is no permit there is no oversight. For that matter how would the AHJ know that the work was being done?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

PA replaced chapter 1 with their own. Houses don't need permits if no load bearing work is done. When I started here there was a lot of permits for finishing basements. Not one of them had the required ceiling hight. So how can I C. O. Any of them? But if they don't require permits or inspections why would I inspect it anyway and go ahead and C.O. them even if it doesn't pass code.

 

[jar546]

Did they have pre-1999 ordinances in place that required those permits and inspections?

 

[steveray]

If the permit was not "required" and for some reason I was inspecting it anyway, I would never approve a violation per:

R105.2 Work exempt from permit. Permits shall not be required for the following. Exemption from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction.

 

[tmurray]

I can't agree with all of it. If the code exempts something, that is a directive to keep out of it. Some jurisdictions exempt plenty and there is an implied sentiment that the AHJ will leave it alone. What's the point of exempting work from a permit and then requiring inspections? If there is no permit there is no oversight. For that matter how would the AHJ know that the work was being done?

The permit is exempt. The code is not. You don't need a permit, but it still needs to comply with the code. The only time an AHJ gets a call on items like this is when someone has a question about something. There should not really be an inspection process if there is no permit. If it works the same there as it does here, it's voluntary for both parties to get the AHJ involved. There is nothing that requires the builder to contact you and there is no requirement that you need to answer their question or inspect.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Jar546-no

Tmurry- there were no questions. Township made them get permits for jobs that are exempt from permits.

Steveray- state excluded chapter 1 from their code.

 

[steveray]

Jar546-no

Tmurry- there were no questions. Township made them get permits for jobs that are exempt from permits.

Steveray- state excluded chapter 1 from their code.

Then the Township needs to set the guidelines to inspect to...Or you inspect it to code and fail them all....

 

[tmurray]

Jar546-no

Tmurry- there were no questions. Township made them get permits for jobs that are exempt from permits.

That sounds illegal.

 

[ADAguy]

Northstar, "Please" increase your point size in your posts.