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Connecting floor joist to rim joist in older home

G

GrimBeeper

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Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
28
Location
Portland, OR
So I'm working on the seismic health of my 1910 four square. I've tied the mud-sill to the foundation, and the rim-joists to the mud-sill. My problem right now is wanting to connect the floor joists to the rim-joists.
I was hoping to use Simpson H10as, but they are for 2x's - I've got 2x8 floor joists, but they are old school, and pretty nearly actually 2 inches wide, not the rather anemic width that passes for 2x these days!
What should I do? I can't bend these things to fit, obviously...
Thanks!
 
GrimBeeper said:
So I'm working on the seismic health of my 1910 four square. I've tied the mud-sill to the foundation, and the rim-joists to the mud-sill. My problem right now is wanting to connect the floor joists to the rim-joists.
Click to expand...

Grim:

Are you sure? Houses in 1910 didn't have rim joists, they had solid blocking between the joists, unless in some rare cantilever situations. Even in heavy seismic zones there is no need for joist hangers with solid blocked joists. It is a good idea to install A35s to clip the blocks to the mudsills but you have apparently already done that.
 
mark handler said:
You must What?
He already said he attached the plates and the rim to the plates
You do not need to clip the joists if you put in hangers?? ?
Click to expand...

If there is a plate and a rim joist, the floor joist sits on the plate. It is back nailed through the rim and toe-nailed to the plate. Given that the floor joists are fairly well trapped at both ends, they seldom go anywhere. I never see hangers or clips on the ends of the floor joists unless there is a ledger....But you know, If you must, well then have at it.
 
Last edited:
Hi - thanks - perhaps I mis-spoke on the rim-joist issue - it may be blocking rather than a joist. Whichever it is though, is already attached to the sill with A35s. What I am wanting to do is to further secure the joists both to the mud sill and also to the two supporting beams in the middle of the house.
The picture here gives an idea of what I'm trying to achieve, but is not the situation I have.
http://www.bayarearetrofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Screenshot-at-Aug-30-17-44-13-1024x601.png

I am trying to minimize floor-heave and separation of the floor (there is no subfloor) from the edges and center beams. Is this something that doesn't make any sense? It seemed to me that since I had the area open it would be a good idea to secure all these things to one another?
 
Grim:

That is not a mudsill, that is a ledger that you have bolted to the foundation, the mudsill is on top of the foundation. This is way overkill, I'm sure everything helps, but few if any structural engineers would have added the hangers and/or the ledger at that point. Were you to consult a structural engineer I'm sure he would have better ways to spend your money to add structural integrity to our home, have you added the ledger yet? If not your money would be better spent consulting with an engineer, if you have already there are already suggestions here as to Simpson metal for rough sawn lumber. If you haven't already pick up a Simpson catalog, they are free at every lumber yard, they have a phone number to consult with a Simpson representative.
 
GrimBeeper said:
Hi - thanks - perhaps I mis-spoke on the rim-joist issue - it may be blocking rather than a joist. Whichever it is though, is already attached to the sill with A35s. What I am wanting to do is to further secure the joists both to the mud sill and also to the two supporting beams in the middle of the house.
The picture here gives an idea of what I'm trying to achieve, but is not the situation I have.
http://www.bayarearetrofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Screenshot-at-Aug-30-17-44-13-1024x601.png

I am trying to minimize floor-heave and separation of the floor (there is no subfloor) from the edges and center beams. Is this something that doesn't make any sense? It seemed to me that since I had the area open it would be a good idea to secure all these things to one another?
Click to expand...

Simpson Strong-Tie’s Seismic Retrofit Guide (F-SEISRETRGD12R) helps educate homeowners about how earthquakes affect a home and the steps to take to reinforce the structural frame of a house. With this guide and the right tools, do-it-yourselfers can increase the structural integrity of their house, making it stronger and safer. For those not inclined to tackle this type of project, the guide can help you make sure your retrofit is done right.
https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/daokkfyn2v/F-SEISRETRGD12R.pdf?u=wxqhy7
 
conarb said:
Grim:

That is not a mudsill, that is a ledger that you have bolted to the foundation, the mudsill is on top of the foundation. This is way overkill, I'm sure everything helps, but few if any structural engineers would have added the hangers and/or the ledger at that point. Were you to consult a structural engineer I'm sure he would have better ways to spend your money to add structural integrity to our home, have you added the ledger yet? If not your money would be better spent consulting with an engineer, if you have already there are already suggestions here as to Simpson metal for rough sawn lumber. If you haven't already pick up a Simpson catalog, they are free at every lumber yard, they have a phone number to consult with a Simpson representative.
Click to expand...
Thank you - as I mentioned - that's not the situation I have - it just illustrated the application of the bracket I'm trying to achieve.
 
Thanks Mark - I've seen that - it's great information, but as with any old house, things don't go quite according to the plans... I don't have access to the connection between the 1st floor and the basement, so I'm looking to maximize what I do have access to since I'm not going to tear out the upper floors any time soon to get access. I'm most concerned about joists that don't run the whole length of the house but terminate by resting on a beam.
Thanks for the help - I just need to track down a wider version.
 
GrimBeeper said:
Hi - thanks - perhaps I mis-spoke on the rim-joist issue - it may be blocking rather than a joist. Whichever it is though, is already attached to the sill with A35s. What I am wanting to do is to further secure the joists both to the mud sill and also to the two supporting beams in the middle of the house.
The picture here gives an idea of what I'm trying to achieve, but is not the situation I have.
http://www.bayarearetrofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Screenshot-at-Aug-30-17-44-13-1024x601.png

I am trying to minimize floor-heave and separation of the floor (there is no subfloor) from the edges and center beams. Is this something that doesn't make any sense? It seemed to me that since I had the area open it would be a good idea to secure all these things to one another?
Click to expand...

We don't know what he is dealing with and he doesn't either. Hell's Bells, he provided a picture with a proviso that, "That's not it"
 
Thanks for that. As i mentioned, the picture illustrated the hanger, not the situation I am installing it. The blocking or rim joist is obscured by insulation, but as I mentioned, that's not my primary concern.
 
You're welcome.

Just so you know, there's no hangers in the picture.
 
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