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Basement Kitchen

rgrace

Sawhorse
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
250
Location
Culpeper County, Virginia
The 2015 International Residential Code is the applicable code for this exercise.

I intend to finish my basement with all the elements necessary for a second dwelling that I intend to use for housing my elderly in-law. On my plans, I place a six foot base cabinet in the open living area and install a sink in the middle of it. I indicate that a cord-and-plug connected microwave will be placed on the counter. My Zoning department is happy with the arrangement as long as I don't intend to ever rent it, use it or advertise it as an independent dwelling unit. Independent dwelling units are not permitted, but an extension of my family into permanent quarters in the basement is acceptable. Based on my plan, the Zoning department told me that I had to identify the cabinet/sink/microwave area as a "kitchen," so I did. The Zoning department doesn't actually define "kitchen" in any of their ordinances, but word of mouth from them is defined as a space that has a sink and provisions for cooking.

I call for a framing inspection. The inspector saw "kitchen" on my plan and told me that I had to change my plan and permit description from "kitchen" to "wet bar" or they (the inspector) would require I install two small appliance branch circuits for the two receptacles installed, one on either side of the sink. I can't change the description without Zoning rescinding my approval, and I don't really want to install two dedicated circuits, each serving only one duplex receptacle.

What would you do now, and why?
 
Either change the name as requested and do battle with zoning which should not be difficult, or keep going and add additional receptacles which is always a good thing
 
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I agree with JPohling, adding the two required small appliance circuits makes sense, better than running extension cords, which sooner of later someone will.

Battling Zoning actually can be a real PITA, and time consuming.

Good luck.
 
If the intent is to use the counter as a kitchen, you should meet the code for a kitchen. One circuit with a duplex receptacle is not sufficient.
 
I would file a complaint with an elected official such as the mayor or board or supervisors and copy the director, building official and zoning administrator as applicable detailing the frustration of following contradictory regulations as suggested, when all you wanted was a countertop for a microwave oven which by right could be placed on a table and plugged into any available wall receptacle.

In addition, if necessary I would contact every news station about an inept bureaucracy.
 
I would file a complaint with an elected official such as the mayor or board or supervisors and copy the director, building official and zoning administrator as applicable detailing the frustration of following contradictory regulations as suggested, when all you wanted was a countertop for a microwave oven which by right could be placed on a table and plugged into any available wall receptacle.

In addition, if necessary I would contact every news station about an inept bureaucracy.

Thanks Francis ! That was awesome !

Would IRC (2012 or 2015) Section E3501.1 make any difference? After all, I am being forced to comply with an electrical requirement, specifically E3703.2.
 
Original request was for a six foot cabinet, sink and microwave. Zoning required it to be identified as a "kitchen" based on their unwritten definition. Can't change to "wet bar" without loosing zoning approval. BTW, I can't find a definition of "wet bar" anywhere, including the zoning ordinance :)
 
Would use the dictionary for terms not used or defined in the code. The electrical section used to have the term "bar sink" now it uses a generic sink "other than kitchen."

In the mean time the plans may need to be revised to satisfy the intent at the least possible cost.
 
If there are no written definitions in the zoning regs for "kitchen" or "wet bar" either one, I'd tell them to go fly a kite.

Just tell the inspector it was mislabeled, and don't say anything to the zoning people. I can't imagine an inspector making you go back to City Hall and physically change the plans you submitted for this - he's just trying to cover his rear (which is probably smart on his end), but this is nitpicky nonsense.
 
Original request was for a six foot cabinet, sink and microwave. Zoning required it to be identified as a "kitchen" based on their unwritten definition. Can't change to "wet bar" without loosing zoning approval. BTW, I can't find a definition of "wet bar" anywhere, including the zoning ordinance :)

This is a lot of work to attempt to get the approval to not run one more circuit. Run another circuit, it's a kitchen. You got what you wanted so now comply with the requirements. I'd love to know more about egress than a simple electrical circuit.
 
I don't inspect electrical, but...

What I would do? I would run the circuit. With my luck, if I didn't run it I would need it later.

What would I make others do? I would not consider that a kitchen. To us a kitchen must provide for all the amenities to cook a full meal before we can call it that. I don't care what it is called on the plans. I tell people, if you can't cook thanksgiving dinner there for the extended family (needing a range and cooktop) we don't consider it a kitchen.

The official should exercise some discretion in the delivery of their responsibilities.
 
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Good stuff !

BTW, the requirement is to run two circuits, one for each receptacle installed on either side of the sink.

E3501.1 states "This chapter contains definitions that shall apply only to the electrical requirements of Chapter 34 through 43. Unless otherwise expressly stated, the following terms shall, for the purpose of this code, have the meanings indicated in this chapter."

This chapter contains a definition of a "kitchen" as follows, "An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking." CMP-2 (NEC Code Making Panel) has clarified on more than one occasion that it did not consider a cord and plug connected microwave as permanent provisions for cooking.

My rebuttal - The requirement to provide two small appliance branch circuits is a Chapter 37 requirement. The requirement is for a kitchen countertop. Chapter 35 does not define this as a kitchen (even if zoning does). If zoning and Chapter 2 define this as a kitchen, enforce all IRC requirements (egress included) associated with this basement kitchen, but do not enforce electrical provisions. NEC is a guest in the IRC, with it's own rules and regulations.
 
I would say the plans room label was wrong, not a kitchen. If there is a bedroom set in a room labeled "Den" wouldn't you still make them have a smoke alarm?
Actually I would, doesn't matter what is labeled it's what it's being used as and since it has a bedroom set in it it's a bedroom! Same here, it's capable of cooking I would consider the kitchen whether it was labeled one or not. Since is already labeled one he might just as well spend the extra $50 and do it right instead of trying to force the system.
 
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Actually I would, doesn't matter what is labeled it's what it's being used as and since it has a bedroom set in it it's a bedroom! Same here, it's capable of cooking I would consider the kitchen whether it was labeled one or not. Since is already labeled one he might just as well spend the extra $50 and do it right instead of trying to force the system.

Just for the record ........ I am a code official, I am not the homeowner (does that make me the "system", said with a grin). I am in sopport of the homeowner when they state this is not a kitchen, that's it's labeled kitchen because zoning required it. I agree with you, Msradell, you do bring up a good point. If there was a bedroom set in the room labebed "den", it's a bedroom, and I would enforce the requirements for a bedroom regardless of what it's labeled. This is a base cabinet with a sink and a cord-and-plug connected microwave labeled "kitchen." This does not make this a kitchen. Throw in a permanently wired cooktop or range and I would consider this a kitchen. The ironic part about this whole issue is that many (including the aforementioned inspector) have indicated that if the homeowner simply scratched out "kitchen" and wrote "wet bar" on the plan, this would no longer be a kitchen. There is still a base cabinet with a sink and a cord-and-plug connected microwave, but now it's not a kitchen?. The only thing that has changed is semantics. Its been said a couple of times "do it right." What is right?
 
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My Zoning department is happy with the arrangement as long as I don't intend to ever rent it, use it or advertise it as an independent dwelling unit.

What happens when you sell the property?
How will the ZD enforce their will on the new owner to prevent them from renting, just asking?
Does your ZD do the SF building plan reviews or should they only be doing zoning enforcement?

Very interesting discussion on how other city's enforce this issue.
 
Zoning actually has a "Second Kitchen Affidavit" that they make the owner sign. It has many conditions, including the owner certifying that they will not advertise it as a seperate apartment or dwelling unit, and that the new owner will be required to receive zoning approval if they wish to continue the use of a second kitchen. Sounds to me like an enforcement nightmare. I think more a CYA.
 
Just for the record ........ I am a code official, I am not the homeowner (does that make me the "system", said with a grin). I am in sopport of the homeowner when they state this is not a kitchen, that's it's labeled kitchen because zoning required it. I agree with you, Msradell, you do bring up a good point. If there was a bedroom set in the room labebed "den", it's a bedroom, and I would enforce the requirements for a bedroom regardless of what it's labeled. This is a base cabinet with a sink and a cord-and-plug connected microwave labeled "kitchen." This does not make this a kitchen. Throw in a permanently wired cooktop or range and I would consider this a kitchen. The ironic part about this whole issue is that many (including the aforementioned inspector) have indicated that if the homeowner simply scratched out "kitchen" and wrote "wet bar" on the plan, this would no longer be a kitchen. There is still a base cabinet with a sink and a cord-and-plug connected microwave, but now it's not a kitchen?. The only thing that has changed is semantics. Its been said a couple of times "do it right." What is right?
This sounds like a misguided attempt at liability mitigation. If you don't call the kitchen a kitchen, then I won't enforce the kitchen requirements. Somehow I doubt that would stand up in court.

I have a house with no kitchen, just a wet bar, 3 "dens" and two "storage rooms" with showers, toilets, and sinks.
 
Some might call it government over reach telling you what you can do inside your home.

Issue is what a room is called what the current owner claims the use is, what the City department calls it, the City Inspector calls it and what the future owner will do with it and claim the use is? Affidavit, that's a new one, guess if you don't play ball with that request you sit the bench.

The zoning issue that I can see is parking and maybe occupancy overload.
The building department issue is well the code that's being enforced.
Wonder what the Health Department and insurance company has to say?
CA's proposed, 55-gallon a day water usage, where's that come in to play?
 
This sounds like a misguided attempt at liability mitigation. If you don't call the kitchen a kitchen, then I won't enforce the kitchen requirements. Somehow I doubt that would stand up in court.

I have a house with no kitchen, just a wet bar, 3 "dens" and two "storage rooms" with showers, toilets, and sinks.

Yea, couldn't give you an ocupancy permit for your house, doesn't meet the definition of a "dwelling unit." Now, if you want to operate a business out of this structure, you'll need zoning approval first.
 
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