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Garage HVAC Questions

Our code specifically exempts a garage serving a single family home in meeting our energy code. People can choose to heat and insulate to whatever standard they want. I'm wondering if the same applies here.

I would absolutely make sure to insulate the portion of the ceiling that isn't insulated. As other indicated, you will also want to air seal everything as well. Get a weatherstripping kit for the garage doors.

Good to know, I'll have to see if I can find a similar type of exemption in our codes.

I definitely want to take care to insulate anything I can, no sense in "wasting" even more electricity than I have to.

Due to the cost of spray foaming, I probably won't spray foam the roof deck of the single car bay.

Instead I will likely end up adding a ceiling to the single garage bay and using that as the air sealing "boundary", creating an attic section above.

This would make the construction more similar to the second story of the home and probably cheaper.
 
Sure, even if I don't get it permitted I'd rather do it reasonably "to code" to help prevent that situation.


For the actual device

Just electricity correct??

It does sound like you do need to seal and insulate a little, to help the unit and the servers


You are inland some and miss the sea breezes
 
For the actual device

Just electricity correct??

It does sound like you do need to seal and insulate a little, to help the unit and the servers


You are inland some and miss the sea breezes

You're correct, I suppose it would just be the electricity requirements that would be a problem. But I'm pretty familiar with those codes.

I checked the garage doors, and they already have weather stripping.

I think I'll take the group consensus and insulate a bit more and just go for it.
 
Don't just go for it, get a permit. Getting caught without one, especially since you've already talked to them, will end up expensive - typically 2 times the normal permit fee, and they could make you rip everything out. You don't want that.

Go here: https://www.energycodes.gov/rescheck input whatever code you're under and then play around with the numbers until you get something that passes. Then hand that to your city with your permit application.
 
Don't just go for it, get a permit. Getting caught without one, especially since you've already talked to them, will end up expensive - typically 2 times the normal permit fee, and they could make you rip everything out. You don't want that.

Go here: https://www.energycodes.gov/rescheck input whatever code you're under and then play around with the numbers until you get something that passes. Then hand that to your city with your permit application.

Nice site!

I was looking at the certification list and didn't see mine, so I found this page:

https://www.energycodes.gov/adoption/states/california

Which links to approved software. I'm going to use one of those instead since CA has all of it's Title 24 requirements and such.
 
Oscar is not going to issue a permit under any circumstances.

You're correct in stating that the plan manager is Oscar (Not sure if you just looked it up or if you work for the city)

Is your statement meant to be a matter of fact or are there other ways I can go about this?
 
So if the garage had a window

And he put a window a/c unit in it

An plugged it into the wall outlet,,,


Would we be having this code conversation ??
 
So if the garage had a window

And he put a window a/c unit in it

An plugged it into the wall outlet,,,

Would we be having this code conversation ??

It wasn't my ideal solution because it would be more work but man it sure seems like this is the right move to "get around" the planning department limitations.

I don't like portable units but even just getting an additional 240V outlet and plugging this thing in would solve this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAAY9R4/ref=twister_B01BQ1UX1W?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

It's just a shame because I want to install a high efficiency unit to lower running costs but the powers that be are against it.

Just seems so backwards.
 
Ya no I don’t work for the city.

I have seen many bootlegged mini-splits. From an inspectors point of view they are small potatoes. Unless the condenser is where it shouldn’t be or there’s some scary thing with the electrical I doubt inspectors will deem it worth the agravation. For starters the inspector knows you can’t have it. That inspector also lives and breathes the same hot air as you.....in his garage. Without a complaint from someone else I doubt you will find an inspector that’s willing to raise a ruckus.

If you ask Oscar if you can do it he will say, “We can’t issue a permit for that”. Of course that didn’t asnswer the question of can you do it. That’s up to you and Oscar doesn’t know if you can do it.....he does know that you will not get a permit.

You can get a permit to convert the single car space from a garage to habitable space and condition the space.
 
It wasn't my ideal solution because it would be more work but man it sure seems like this is the right move to "get around" the planning department limitations.

I don't like portable units but even just getting an additional 240V outlet and plugging this thing in would solve this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAAY9R4/ref=twister_B01BQ1UX1W?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

It's just a shame because I want to install a high efficiency unit to lower running costs but the powers that be are against it.

Just seems so backwards.


Me I would install the ductless and call it good.

I am not into electrical, so I would hire an electrician.
 
It wasn't my ideal solution because it would be more work but man it sure seems like this is the right move to "get around" the planning department limitations.

I don't like portable units but even just getting an additional 240V outlet and plugging this thing in would solve this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAAY9R4/ref=twister_B01BQ1UX1W?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

It's just a shame because I want to install a high efficiency unit to lower running costs but the powers that be are against it.

Just seems so backwards.


You'll still need a permit if you're cutting a hole in the wall to install the "window" AC unit - you're "altering" the wall, which triggers the permit requirement.

What I'd do, were I you, is get that permit. On my application I'd say I was installing a window, and then I'd install a cheap window just big enough to hold the AC unit. Get window installed/inspected, watch the inspector drive away once I had my final inspection report in hand, then install the window AC unit and have a cool garage. You'll have met the code, been completely legal, and accomplished your goal. If your municipality is not going to issue a permit for the mini-split, then that's really your only option.

There are plenty of window AC units that are high efficiency - you just have to pay for them. Enough dollar bills will buy you almost anything you want.
 
Our code specifically exempts a garage serving a single family home in meeting our energy code. People can choose to heat and insulate to whatever standard they want. I'm wondering if the same applies here.

I would absolutely make sure to insulate the portion of the ceiling that isn't insulated. As other indicated, you will also want to air seal everything as well. Get a weatherstripping kit for the garage doors.
If you condition the space, adding the mini-split, you need to comply with the energy code.
 
You'll still need a permit if you're cutting a hole in the wall to install the "window" AC unit - you're "altering" the wall, which triggers the permit requirement.

What I'd do, were I you, is get that permit. On my application I'd say I was installing a window, and then I'd install a cheap window just big enough to hold the AC unit. Get window installed/inspected, watch the inspector drive away once I had my final inspection report in hand, then install the window AC unit and have a cool garage. You'll have met the code, been completely legal, and accomplished your goal. If your municipality is not going to issue a permit for the mini-split, then that's really your only option.

There are plenty of window AC units that are high efficiency - you just have to pay for them. Enough dollar bills will buy you almost anything you want.

Yup, I think this is what I'm going to go with.

Thanks for everyone's input/feedback on this!
 
All this talk and no mention of solar to lower your cost, also what of parking required for single family, going to use your driveway, no HOA limitations?
 
All this talk and no mention of solar to lower your cost, also what of parking required for single family, going to use your driveway, no HOA limitations?

We already have solar.

The cars already park in the driveway.

No HOA on this property.
 
Reading between the lines, I think that the mfr misunderstood what you were doing...I believe they think that you want to put the condenser in the garage (evaporator in the house or somewhere other than the garage). Ignoring the code (for a just moment), there is no technical reason why you can't cool this space with a mini-split. And certainly, such a unit will cool it more efficiently than a window (or through the wall) A/C unit.

But as steveray said, you are wanting to turn an unconditioned space into a conditioned space. The codes are concerned with energy consumption of buildings and as such, require conditioned spaces to be built in a certain way to limit energy use. Insulating walls, ceiling and floors is a big part however, limiting air infiltration/ex-filtration (leakage) is a also a large part. The key problem in meeting the energy code requirements will be the vehicle garage door as it doesn't have sufficient insulation and certainly, can't meet the leakage requirements. In other words, you won't begin the meet the code unless you remove the garage door and replace it with wall construction. Then, the insulation values in the wall and ceiling would need verified (remove all of the gypsum board on the walls for inspection and get into the attic to check depths of insulation. (In Corona, CA, below slab insulation is not required?) Install vapor barrier on walls and seal the heck out of everything. Have a blower door test run and check to make sure the leakage values are within spec. Intall new drywall and finish. Ta-Da! Conditioned space. NOW, have a mechanical contractor run cooling load analysis (and don't forget about telling him about the servers that are generating heat to the space.) ONLY THEN, can the proper size of HVAC system be chosen for that space. And you don't want to oversize a unit as short cycling is hard on the equipment and doesn't result in proper de-humidification of the air. Excess moisture within buildings can cause significant problems. Of course, EVERYTHING I have talked about requires one or more permits, even if YOU, as the homeowner, is the one doing the work. As cda indicated, it is strongly advised that ant electrical work be performed by a qualified and licensed electrical (who has pulled there own permit for the work). There are so many nuances to electrical wiring installation that is is not worth taking a risk on this part of the work. Sizing conductors is only part of the challenge.

In conclusion, you come to this forum (of mainly code officials) asking for DIY advice. I am (we are) not going to be too helpful towards a DIYer who wants to do something like this on the QT. The building codes department only exists to protect the public (you and the future owners of you home) from improper, perhaps dangerous, construction. Your taxes mostly pay for this service (the permit fees are only a small slice of the costs.) Let's put it another way: Suppose you purchased another house and someone (like yourself) did some work on the QT. The work was improper resulting in you having to spend money to make it correct. You wouldn't be too happy, right? Please don't try to circumvent the codes and enforcement that are put in place for good reason. The code officials on this forum have seen it all...done incorrectly.
 
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Good comments all, he will also have to disclose if this work was permitted at time of sale.
We do have some architects and engineers on this forum too (smiling).
 
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So if he already had a wimdow in the garage

And stuck a window a/c in it

Would he be required to jump through the highest hoop still???
 
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