Permit Process in San Francisco Criminal

[conarb]

The report found that building permit applications for commercial property alterations, additions and repairs submitted in 2017 to the Department of Building Inspection took an average of 172 days — that’s nearly six months — to be approved.

It took another 88 days, on average, for the permitted construction and renovation work to be completed and get a final sign-off, for a total of 260 days or more than 8½ months.

If the new business needed a conditional use authorization change from the Planning Department — they’re required for more businesses in the Upper Market-Castro than in some other neighborhoods — it took an average of 332 days, or nearly one year, to be approved.

When combined with the time it takes to get a building permit and the final approval, the entire process can take a year and a half for projects requiring both Planning and Department of Building Inspection approvals, the report said.

Meanwhile, the storefronts remain vacant and the businesses are stuck paying rent.

“It’s like going into a casino,” Bergerac said. “You don’t know if you are going to win or lose.”

The city has programs to speed things up for small and mid-size businesses. In the last three years, 32 businesses sought help in accelerating their approvals and shaved 118 days off their wait, but it still took an average of 173 days — about six months — to get the final OK.

“For many applicants that means 18 months, two years or more of paying high rent on a storefront that hasn’t even opened yet,” said Supervisor Rafael Mandelman, whose district includes the Castro and who called for the study.

“The city ought to be doing everything we can to attract businesses and help them to open as quickly as possible, not making it more difficult, time-intensive and expensive,” Mandelman said.

“If it takes 88 days to build something out, but twice that time to get the permits, then something is wrong with the process,” said Supervisor Aaron Peskin, whose district includes North Beach.

Meanwhile, business owners are still faced with backups.

Bergerac said store owners are joining the ranks of people who hire professional “expediters” to get their permits approved faster — it’s a longtime, winked-at practice.

“What does that tell you about the system?” Bergerac said. “It’s criminal.”¹

The city is falling apart with needles and feces all over the streets, meanwhile it takes twice as long to permit something than it does to build it. Those "permit expediters" are nothing but ways to bribe your way into permits, several years ago several ex-building inspectors went to jail in San Francisco, the system is totally corrupt


¹ https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...time-OKing-retail-makeovers-look-13736702.php

 

[fatboy]

CA, as far as permitting in the USA, I think you are obviously in a $hithole, the rest of the country is not like that.

Having said that..........is this once it gets to the actual building permit office?

I have found (our timeline is 20 business days) that the holdups are in site plan review, Engineering Review and Planning.

Please clarify where your holdups are.

Don't throw the Building Department under the bus if they have not even received the plans.

If they ARE part of the problem..........shame on them, and Frisco's leadership.

 

[conarb]

Fatboy:

Every AHJ has different procedures, but in most cases we make application in the Building Department and they go from there. we have no idea where they are, I've gone in and they will look up and say something like: "They are in Roads and Airports now, or the Fires Marshal has them." I only know when a department calls me with questions, at times wanting me to bring the architect or an engineer in to go over things. Once the plans and specs are taken in and I pay the fees everything is out of my control.

BTW. that article started on the front page of today's San Francisco Chronicle, the whole city is upset about it now, for many years simple TI s like they are talking about I could permit over the counter.

 

[jar546]

Fatboy:

Every AHJ has different procedures, but in most cases we make application in the Building Department and they go from there. we have no idea where they are, I've gone in and they will look up and say something like: "They are in Roads and Airports now, or the Fires Marshal has them." I only know when a department calls me with questions, at times wanting me to bring the architect or an engineer in to go over things. Once the plans and specs are taken in and I pay the fees everything is out of my control.

BTW. that article started on the front page of today's San Francisco Chronicle, the whole city is upset about it now, for many years simple TI s like they are talking about I could permit over the counter.

Agree with Fatboy. People have made submissions to the "building department" which included planning commission and zoning. When you are talking about actual plan review, state law normally dictates a time-frame to be reviewed and/or commented on. I know for a fact that planning commission and zoning can take months and in some cases, years. So don't play dumb saying you don't know where a submission goes after you dropped it off because if you knew what you were doing, you would know the procedures and processes needed to start construction of any process.

I think this is another axe you have to grind with your own spin on something that is not so complicated or as bad as you think it is. How about some facts.

 

[conarb]

I think this is another axe you have to grind with your own spin on something that is not so complicated or as bad as you think it is. How about some facts.

It's obvious that you don't like me because I don't just tell other people what to do, I put up my own money and have built everything from cyclotrons to $1,000 a square foot homes. After that stupid double ground rod thing I wasn't coming back, then yesterday I picked up the Chronicle and see the article about "Building Permit Applications" on the front page of the paper. At one time we took several sets of plans and distributed them, to various agencies, then cities started implementing "One Stop Permitting", now, in most AHJs, we drop off two sets of plans with the building department and they handle ti from there, neither we builders nor the general public gives a darn whether its' building permit, zoning, environmental, fire, or any other government department, it's all the same to us and under control of the AHJ's Pubic Works and ultimately the CBO. As for facts there was another article in the same paper yesterday about a storefront that has remained vacant for 17 years, a lot went on but several tried and so far nobody has succeeded.

A prime location in San Francisco’s Noe Valley neighborhood that has stood vacant for 16 years is set to open as a skincare clinic this month.

Locals call the story of 3939 24th St. a “great saga,” combining an absentee owner, memories of a bitter labor dispute, retrofit requirements and squabbles over building — or not building — housing. It’s coming to an end with the opening of SkinSpirit, a medical spa, at the site on April 15.

In 2002, Nutraceutical bought the Real Food business, leasing the building from Kimball and Jane Allen, who started the grocer in 1970. (Kimball Allen died in 2011.) A lawsuit ensued between the Allens and Nutraceutical over extensive repairs needed at the 1920s building. City records show it was once three storefronts, combined over time without proper permits. Nutraceutical ended up buying the property in 2005 for a reduced price.¹

extensive repairs needed at the 1920s building. This happens all the time, somebody finds a vacant space and decides to rent it and build something, then when they get to city hall they are blindsided by everything from seismic to disability codes that drive the cost beyond anything remotely feasible.

“I think they (Nutraceutical) got frustrated with the layers of city processes involved,” said David Eiland, co-owner of Just for Fun & Scribbledoodles, an art and gift store in Noe Valley. “It sat empty for years, and every time they brought a plan to the city, it wouldn’t work.”¹

and every time they brought a plan to the city, it wouldn’t work. This says it all. BTW, from personal experience the longest part of the process is the structural engineering review, even though I went to engineers with German software to automate the process, now the AHJs haven't purchased that particular software.


¹ https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/How-does-a-retail-space-stay-empty-in-San-13736595.php

 

[jar546]

It's obvious that you don't like me because I don't just tell other people what to do, I put up my own money and have built everything from cyclotrons to $1,000 a square foot homes. After that stupid double ground rod thing I wasn't coming back, then yesterday I picked up the Chronicle and see the article about "Building Permit Applications" on the front page of the paper. At one time we took several sets of plans and distributed them, to various agencies, then cities started implementing "One Stop Permitting", now, in most AHJs, we drop off two sets of plans with the building department and they handle ti from there, neither we builders nor the general public gives a damn wither its' building permit, zoning, environmental, fire, or any other government department, it's all the same to us and under control of the AHJ's Pubic Works and ultimately the CBO. As for facts there was another article in the same paper yesterday about a storefront that has remained vacant for 17 years, a lot went on but several tried and so far nobody has succeeded.

I actually do like you. I just don't agree with your viewpoint and lack of responding to questions with actual answers vs what you do, which is to then go off on another tangent to distract from the question.

Trains are a necessity and making a comeback in more and more areas of the country. Maybe someday we will have the ability to travel like Europe does.

 

[JCraver]

I actually do like you. I just don't agree with your viewpoint and lack of responding to questions with actual answers vs what you do, which is to then go off on another tangent to distract from the question.

Trains are a necessity and making a comeback in more and more areas of the country. Maybe someday we will have the ability to travel like Europe does.

I'm not sure what trains have to do with anything, but I strongly disagree with the notion that they're necessary. If you can show me an example of a railroad supporting itself without any subsidies (my money, in other words), I might be interested in listening to that side of the argument. But since just about the first one we ever built, the RR's have had their hands out. If they were so necessary, they could make money on their own.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies

 

[tmurray]

Conarb does have a point. It really doesn't matter who in the municipality is holding up the application. What matters is the perception of the applicant. This drives votes, votes win elections, elected officials change priorities. IF the issue has that much of the electorate upset, the government employees have much to be concerned about.

It is interesting to me that it is likely complaints that drove the one stop permitting; "I don't want to have to drive all over dropping off plans to everyone". Now there are complaints about this too. I'm wondering if the main issue is a lack of communication of where the application is in the process. They also might want to look at concurrent reviews. We do those here and most people are very appreciative when they get multiple department's comments back within a couple days.

As public servants, our will is not our own. Our will is the will of the public.

 

[conarb]

$57 MILLION PROJECT

East Oakland gets new apartment complex

110-unit development housing people across from Coliseum BART parking lot

By Ali Tadayon

atadayon@bayareanewsgroup.com

OAKLAND » After 17 years of planning, the 110-unit Coliseum Connections development has started housing people across from the Coliseum BART parking lot — one of only a few new developments to open up in East Oakland amid a citywide building boom.

The $57 million project, paid for in part by funds from Alameda County A1
housing bond and city redevelopment funds, includes 55 market-rate units and 55 designed as affordable for households making 50 to 60 percent of the area median income, which was $104,400 for a family of four in 2018.

Developers UrbanCore and the Oakland Economic Development Corporation entered into a 66-year ground lease with BART for the 1.3-acre lot at 71st Avenue and Snell Street, under which they will pay BART $15,000 a year plus 50 percent of their net profit from rent, BART spokeswoman Alicia Trost told the Bay Area News Group.

East Oakland council member Larry Reid, at an event Thursday celebrating the complex’s opening, thanked the developers
for going through with the project while other developers avoided the area. Reid said he believes Coliseum Connections will inspire others to invest in building new housing in East Oakland “In the next five to 10 years, some of the most incredible housing growth in the city outside of downtown is going to take place down here in deep East Oakland. You will have done something to instill an incredible amount of pride in the people who didn’t give up, didn’t sell their homes and move outside of Oakland, but stayed because they believed in the changes that could occur given the chance,” Reid said.

UrbanCore is also the developer behind a 270-unit tower east of Lake Merritt.

Coliseum Connections’ marketrate units will be rented for $2,200 to $2,700 and the affordable ones for $1,100 to $1,570, according to a news release from the city and UrbanCore. Available units include 66 one- and two-bedroom flats, as well as 44 two-story townhomes. There also is an 86-space parking structure.

Despite the project taking 17 years to plan, it took a quick 17 months to build. The relative speed is credited to developers using “modular construction techniques” to stack pre-fabricated units on top of each other. Contact Ali Tadayon at 408-8595289.

Note the last paragraph, 17 years in the bureaucracy and 17 months to build, the secret here is modular construction, built in a factory to Federal specifications with no building code, the building codes will be limited to the foundations.

 

[tmurray]

Note the last paragraph, 17 years in the bureaucracy and 17 months to build, the secret here is modular construction, built in a factory to Federal specifications with no building code, the building codes will be limited to the foundations.

17 years to plan

Plan =/= permit

Any public/private venture like this takes forever to plan.

 

[conarb]

In the paper today a front page article about Santa Rosa rebuilding after the fires, except now they don't want to rebuild the American dream of single family homes, they want high rise development as per The United Nations Agenda 21/2030, and the building departments are going to cooperate instead of just being obstructionist tax collecting agencies:

But rebuilding the homes that burned down — mostly single-family houses in residential neighborhoods — isn’t enough. The city also needs new rental apartments to house residents who either don’t want to rebuild on their fire-ravaged properties, or can’t afford to because they were under-insured, Guhin said. In an effort to get that rental housing built, the city is rolling out the red carpet for developers, offering them a long list of perks if they build the type of housing Santa Rosa wants — tall, multi-family apartment buildings downtown.

Last year officials capped the city’s impact fees for downtown developments, charging builders only for the first three stories and waiving the rest. The city also expedited permitting for downtown projects, cutting the time it takes to get approval from 18 months down to six. And Santa Rosa officials are considering raising downtown height limits, now capped at 10 stories, and reducing parking requirements.

The size and scope of those developer incentives are “unprecedented” in the Bay Area, said Matt Regan, senior vice president of public policy for the Bay Area Council.

“They’ve really done everything that needs to be done to make development possible,” he said.

In other Bay Area cities, developers often complain of hefty construction fees and cumbersome regulations.

“Everyone I know in the San Francisco and other Bay Area markets has internalized the trauma of wrestling with city departments,” said Alex Ludlum of commercial real estate firm Colliers International, who took part in the Bay Area Council tour. “I sort of feel like I’m in Disneyland when I’m in Santa Rosa.”

But some experts wonder if there’s enough demand for housing in Santa Rosa to generate the kind of building boom city officials want. The city doesn’t have an Apple or Google-sized employer, and it’s a long drive from job hubs in San Francisco, San Jose and Oakland.

And Santa Rosa has struggled to build in the past. The city’s downtown plan calls for 3,400 housing units. But 10 years after that plan was put in place, just 100 units have been built, Guhin said.¹

"or can’t afford to because they were under-insured," of course not, we got this in spades in the Oakland Hills Fire, houses were insured to their value, not to rebuild to today's much more expensive codes.

" Last year officials capped the city’s impact fees for downtown developments, charging builders only for the first three stories and waiving the rest. The city also expedited permitting for downtown projects, cutting the time it takes to get approval from 18 months down to six.? Well that's a start which proves it can be done, but only if you cram people together in sardine cans.

"In other Bay Area cities, developers often complain of hefty construction fees and cumbersome regulations." That's what we should be eliminating, the cumbersome regulations, like the building code.

" “Everyone I know in the San Francisco and other Bay Area markets has internalized the trauma of wrestling with city departments,”. Let's face it, everybody hates civil servants, from black football players hating cops to white people hating building departments.




¹ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/0...ng-boom-why-developers-are-eyeing-santa-rosa/

 

[steveray]

People being under insured is not my problem......And once again, I doubt building codes are making it a whole lot more expensive to rebuild. (maybe seismic where you are) If they were insured "to value", shouldn't that be about what it costs to replace? If they were insured to "cost at time of construction" I could understand, but I have never seen a policy like that.

 

[tmurray]

You mean that instead of wanting houses to collect taxes off of they want multi-million dollar buildings? Who would have though that organizations would prefer more money.

The under-insured thing is a legislative issue. All of our insurance here is replacement value. It is illegal for an insurance company to sell market value insurance because it has no value. Why do I care what the market value of my burned down house was? What is that going to do for me now that all I have left is a foundation?

"In other Bay Area cities, developers often complain of hefty construction fees and cumbersome regulations." That's what we should be eliminating, the cumbersome regulations, like the building code.

The funny thing is, I deal with two different types of builders. The ones who are doing anything to make a buck and the real builders. When I say real builders, I'm talking about the ones who love building people houses. They like making someone's dreams come true. They are there to build a quality product. They frequently tell me how supportive they are of building permits, codes, and inspections, even when they don't agree with them. They like that it keeps everyone on the same playing field. They like building houses that are safe and because of building codes, they don't have to worry as much about someone coming in and undercutting them by putting the customer's safety at risk.

I really don't know which category you belong in. But when you keep talking like you belong in the "i'm here to make a buck" category, I make assumptions.

You keep telling us what people want, but if people wanted what you say they wanted, they would elect representatives that would mandate those things. They have not. They don't want the things you think they want. Many people in my generation do not want a house. They see a house as a lack of freedom. They want condos and apartments. They want big city living. If they get a new job tomorrow in another city, they want to just pick up and go. They can do that with an apartment. They value experiences over possessions.

Is the "American Dream" static? Is it the house, car, nuclear family, white picket fence, etc.? or has it changed?

 

[conarb]

You mean that instead of wanting houses to collect taxes off of they want multi-million dollar buildings? Who would have though that organizations would prefer more money.

So governments are like other organizations and want more money? That has become the purpose of government, making money.

The under-insured thing is a legislative issue. All of our insurance here is replacement value. It is illegal for an insurance company to sell market value insurance because it has no value. Why do I care what the market value of my burned down house was? What is that going to do for me now that all I have left is a foundation?

Until the Oakland Hills fire in 1991 (destroyed included 2,843 single-family dwellings and 437 apartment and condominium units) nobody knew that they were under-insured, insurance brokers kept insurance low to be more competitive and "over-insurance" is a red flag for potential insurance fraud including arson. By the 70s I was building expensive single family homes and a couple of good brokers would call me yearly asking how much it would cost to rebuild them now, but that was a rarity.

The funny thing is, I deal with two different types of builders. The ones who are doing anything to make a buck and the real builders. When I say real builders, I'm talking about the ones who love building people houses. They like making someone's dreams come true. They are there to build a quality product. They frequently tell me how supportive they are of building permits, codes, and inspections, even when they don't agree with them. They like that it keeps everyone on the same playing field. They like building houses that are safe and because of building codes, they don't have to worry as much about someone coming in and undercutting them by putting the customer's safety at risk.

I really don't know which category you belong in. But when you keep talking like you belong in the "i'm here to make a buck" category, I make assumptions.

This is true here, and that's why I initially came here, when I started building under an early 50s code I was building at $6 a square foot, homes and apartments, I retired at $1,000 a square foot, I made the decision to just build for the wealthy so over-the-top codes only made me more money, codes have gone wild with plan checkers demanding my engineers design to thousand year events, meanwhile I have two story cheap garden apartments standing with no bracing at all, the sheetrock nailing was engineered to withstand seismic events, and they have survived several major earthquakes (I don't agree with this BTW). Like everything in life this is a matter of degree and reasonableness, we all make daily choices based upon our own cost/benefit analyses, in the case of codes the government is making those decisions for us, usually to Hell with costs, they implement the codes implemented by pressure groups, be they commercial like fire sprinklers, or environmental like energy and green codes. Codes being minimal health and safety standards are things of the past.

You keep telling us what people want, but if people wanted what you say they wanted, they would elect representatives that would mandate those things. They have not. They don't want the things you think they want. Many people in my generation do not want a house. They see a house as a lack of freedom. They want condos and apartments. They want big city living. If they get a new job tomorrow in another city, they want to just pick up and go. They can do that with an apartment. They value experiences over possessions.

Is the "American Dream" static? Is it the house, car, nuclear family, white picket fence, etc.? or has it changed?

You are young and you have just expressed the New World Order philosophy that our young have been indoctrinated into for generations now, the idea was expressed by The Club of Rome and their Bible the book "Limits to Growth", I've heard the author Dennis Meadows state that the entire population of the world could be crammed into the State of Texas if Texas was developed to the density of Manhattan. I have given up my opera and symphony tickets because I am sickened by the dense City of San Francisco, piles of feces and hypodermic needles on the streets and sidewalks, drunks and druggies lying all over the place so you have to step over them, gays parading around virtually naked, some whipping each other with leather and chains, meanwhile looking up in the air there are multiple high-rise buildings sprouting cranes building more dense buildings that will cost millions of collars to buy or tens of thousands per month to rent, how are they going to get those derelicts on the street up into those code-compliant high-rises?

That's the problem, nobody but the wealthy can afford code-compliant buildings anymore.

 

[steveray]

Good!....Send everyone to Texas.....They can help build the wall, save us billions...

 

[tmurray]

So governments are like other organizations and want more money? That has become the purpose of government, making money.



Until the Oakland Hills fire in 1991 (destroyed included 2,843 single-family dwellings and 437 apartment and condominium units) nobody knew that they were under-insured, insurance brokers kept insurance low to be more competitive and "over-insurance" is a red flag for potential insurance fraud including arson. By the 70s I was building expensive single family homes and a couple of good brokers would call me yearly asking how much it would cost to rebuild them now, but that was a rarity.



This is true here, and that's why I initially came here, when I started building under an early 50s code I was building at $6 a square foot, homes and apartments, I retired at $1,000 a square foot, I made the decision to just build for the wealthy so over-the-top codes only made me more money, codes have gone wild with plan checkers demanding my engineers design to thousand year events, meanwhile I have two story cheap garden apartments standing with no bracing at all, the sheetrock nailing was engineered to withstand seismic events, and they have survived several major earthquakes (I don't agree with this BTW). Like everything in life this is a matter of degree and reasonableness, we all make daily choices based upon our own cost/benefit analyses, in the case of codes the government is making those decisions for us, usually to Hell with costs, they implement the codes implemented by pressure groups, be they commercial like fire sprinklers, or environmental like energy and green codes. Codes being minimal health and safety standards are things of the past.



You are young and you have just expressed the New World Order philosophy that our young have been indoctrinated into for generations now, the idea was expressed by The Club of Rome and their Bible the book "Limits to Growth", I've heard the author Dennis Meadows state that the entire population of the world could be crammed into the State of Texas if Texas was developed to the density of Manhattan. I have given up my opera and symphony tickets because I am sickened by the dense City of San Francisco, piles of feces and hypodermic needles on the streets and sidewalks, drunks and druggies lying all over the place so you have to step over them, gays parading around virtually naked, some whipping each other with leather and chains, meanwhile looking up in the air there are multiple high-rise buildings sprouting cranes building more dense buildings that will cost millions of collars to buy or tens of thousands per month to rent, how are they going to get those derelicts on the street up into those code-compliant high-rises?

That's the problem, nobody but the wealthy can afford code-compliant buildings anymore.

They need money to meet the level of service demanded by their electorate.

Codes are getting stronger because owners are expecting more resilient buildings.

You keep blaming us for codes getting stronger. The reality is that we represent the will of our elected officials. Elected officials represent the will of their electorate. The electorate want stronger codes.

 

[conarb]

They need money to meet the level of service demanded by their electorate.

Codes are getting stronger because owners are expecting more resilient buildings.

You keep blaming us for codes getting stronger. The reality is that we represent the will of our elected officials. Elected officials represent the will of their electorate. The electorate want stronger codes.

Unfortunately the voters of California include many illegal aliens since our legislature passed "motor-voter" registration, the people were told we need to give drivers' licenses to illegals so they can buy insurance, with motor-voter they register to vote on the same form. My vote isn't even counted anymore, the last time I went to vote my name has been excluded, I have two choices, vote by absentee ballot of go to the polls and vote by provisional ballot, neither absentee nor provisional ballots are counted unless after the election they can make a difference, so I did vote by provisional ballot but it wasn't counted.

As Jim, Brown has told us, the Federal Government agencies come into the room and tell the ICC what they want, and that's what we get, if I'm wrong on that please correct me Jim. BTW, one of Trump's first executive orders was that all government agencies had to eliminate two laws for every new one passed, but by being a NGO the ICC isn't compelled to abide by the executive order, we'd be better off eliminating the ICC and let the government take over, at least they'd be subject to executive orders the.

As I've said before I'm in favor of going back to the 1994 ICBO codes, that was far enough.

 

[tmurray]

Coming from a place with a code run by the government, ours is not that bad. In fact, they recently reduced the costs of our codes to the actual costs of the physical codes. $100 for a code binder. PDFs are free. The government is investing tax payer money into the development process since all people see the benefit from building codes.

 

[conarb]

Coming from a place with a code run by the government, ours is not that bad. In fact, they recently reduced the costs of our codes to the actual costs of the physical codes. $100 for a code binder. PDFs are free. The government is investing tax payer money into the development process since all people see the benefit from building codes.

T, I've long said that your codes are a lot better than ours, in fact I've suggested that we adopt your codes if possible.

 

[cda]

T, I've long said that your codes are a lot better than ours, in fact I've suggested that we adopt your codes if possible.

Conarb

Sorry for hijacking

Is this attached stuff a California law or mandate the utilities do this??