Your premier resource for building code knowledge.
This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.
Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.
Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.
Teeshot,Good points tbz, but as we are all aware, (at least us parents) a small child will have a much different curiosity level, plus they lack the common sense that an accident could be waiting at the top of that rail. If it can be climbed, it will be.
Ice,Looks to be shy of 42".
Little boys have little gremlins inside their heads that say “Climb that!” everytime they see an object.your statement if it can be climb, they will, i fully disagree with
My statement was not broad, but rather narrowed toward small children, who as described by eh, have the "gremlin" switch that comes on at any time, hence the reason for child-proofing your kitchen, etc.Teeshot,
have you ever done the research on the visual cliff studies? and your statement if it can be climb, they will, i fully disagree with because if that was true the statistics would shin through someplace and they don't.
The statement that if something is climbable and inviting interest they will climb I can agree with, but just a broad statement of anything period is way off the facts.
Good comments but still not "Best" practice, an attractive opportunity for kids.Here is a question for you,
Just because you think something might be an issue or problem, does not mean it actually is one.
- If the balcony had a solid 42-inch high wall acting as the guard would you think twice about it?
- What research has shown is that being able to get a footing on something does not entice an action, curiosity does.
- in my search over the years I have read lots of injury reports of climbing over solid walls and furniture or objects, but nothing about horizontal guards.
- both young and old, people are curious to see what is going on, thus the fact you can see what is going on though the guard is were the curiosity terminates because they see the issue with the fall height as proven though researchers with the visual cliff studies.
- When people can't see what is on the other side, they try to see how they can see, thus solid guards have a good amount of data showing climb overs. Hence what is on the other side is an unknown, so they climb up to see and then they accidently fall due to being unstable. A good footing is what you want and don't have a solid smooth surface that is not clear.
- Studies and data have shown a reduction in falls once the 4" sphere rule for opening limitations were adopted in many jurisdictions. The fact that they could see, but could not pass through, solidified the persons curiosity. If it didn't and the intent was to get to the other side, you would not have seen the reduction to the extent that has been seen. Because if the intent is to get there you would see different results in the data than has been documented.
Additionally, the ICC had the CTC do an in-depth review over 4-5 years on this topic, and you can see plenty of their documentation on the ICC website and the code proposals submitted by the ICC/CTC in the 2006, 2009 and 2012 code cycles. Plus the CTC's report to the ICC Board.
And lastly, if it was really an issue or problem do you think the building cold get insurance coverage????
DittoEverything in my life was far from childproofed as a kid....I'm still here....
Bad practice though, an accident waiting to happen for kids.If there are less than 4 inches between the horizontal members, it is fine.
Those of us with small children should know better... the Building Code is not a replacement for good parenting. Be present and engaged, children will be safer.Good points tbz, but as we are all aware, (at least us parents) a small child will have a much different curiosity level, plus they lack the common sense that an accident could be waiting at the top of that rail. If it can be climbed, it will be.
This comment doesn't advance the how building codes should address a balcony. Codes do not dictate exact design or how people should act, nor should they. If this were the case, then the United States Capitol building could never have been design the way it was. All of the horizontal reveals would need to be filled in because uneducated people might climb it on January 6th in an election year. Codes are no substitute for common sense or good parenting.Good comments but still not "Best" practice, an attractive opportunity for kids.
These findings were presented here in Canada and were accepted to remove climability restrictions on guards for up to 4.2m above the adjacent surface. Even in SFDs.Here is a question for you,
Just because you think something might be an issue or problem, does not mean it actually is one.
- If the balcony had a solid 42-inch high wall acting as the guard would you think twice about it?
- What research has shown is that being able to get a footing on something does not entice an action, curiosity does.
- in my search over the years I have read lots of injury reports of climbing over solid walls and furniture or objects, but nothing about horizontal guards.
- both young and old, people are curious to see what is going on, thus the fact you can see what is going on though the guard is were the curiosity terminates because they see the issue with the fall height as proven though researchers with the visual cliff studies.
- When people can't see what is on the other side, they try to see how they can see, thus solid guards have a good amount of data showing climb overs. Hence what is on the other side is an unknown, so they climb up to see and then they accidently fall due to being unstable. A good footing is what you want and don't have a solid smooth surface that is not clear.
- Studies and data have shown a reduction in falls once the 4" sphere rule for opening limitations were adopted in many jurisdictions. The fact that they could see, but could not pass through, solidified the persons curiosity. If it didn't and the intent was to get to the other side, you would not have seen the reduction to the extent that has been seen. Because if the intent is to get there you would see different results in the data than has been documented.
Additionally, the ICC had the CTC do an in-depth review over 4-5 years on this topic, and you can see plenty of their documentation on the ICC website and the code proposals submitted by the ICC/CTC in the 2006, 2009 and 2012 code cycles. Plus the CTC's report to the ICC Board.
And lastly, if it was really an issue or problem do you think the building cold get insurance coverage????
May not be required depending on what story it is onLooks to be shy of 42".
Maybe not be good but they do allow for the feathering of Atty's nests by giving justification to their representations in court.This comment doesn't advance the how building codes should address a balcony. Codes do not dictate exact design or how people should act, nor should they. If this were the case, then the United States Capitol building could never have been design the way it was. All of the horizontal reveals would need to be filled in because uneducated people might climb it on January 6th in an election year. Codes are no substitute for common sense or good parenting.
That exception is not in California code.May not be required depending on what story it is on
2018 IBC 1015.3
Exceptions:
1. For occupancies in Group R-3 not more than three stories above grade in height and within individual dwelling units in occupancies in Group R-2 not more than three stories above grade in height with separate means of egress, required guards shall be not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in height measured vertically above the adjacent walking surfaces.