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Define "Landing" (Exterior Door Requirement)

wtravisl

Registered User
Joined
Dec 2, 2021
Messages
23
Location
Texas, US
The builder of a home I designed in Texas posed an interesting question: what exactly constitutes a "landing", for an exterior (non-egress) door to a back yard? 202 offers no definition. 311.3 says "There shall be a landing or floor on each side...". In lieu of concrete flatwork or buying a paver, he wants to know if he can simply raise grade to within 7 3/4" of the threshold, slope away at 1/4":12" or less, cover it with decorative gravel, and call that "landing". I'm inclined to say yes. Without a clear definition, it seems to me IRC is just looking for a solid surface to catch walking feet, not too far below. Anyone have direct experience with officials/inspectors on this point?
 
What most builders do here is build a single step/landing out of 2X6 PT or redwood. Specifically I'm thinking of one builder who has done hundreds of homes in this area, always raised perimeter foundation with a 10x10ish concrete patio in the back yard with a sliding class door (non-egress) going out to the back yard. He also does a slap for the garage at the same grade. He builds it to that his finished floor is 14" above the patio and slab. The 2X6 is used to frame a 4x6ish landing/step and used as the "decking" on top. That gives him a 7" step/landing and the step from there into the house is the same.

At any rate I think the same logic applies to your situation.
 
The gravel is sufficient to meet the code requirement for a landing. Not much better than dirt. Most housewives would complain. Mine wouldn’t unlock the door.
 
Interesting, I know someone working on a code change for this very situation. We were massaging the text of the change, should have it submitted soon.

I'll share it as soon as it is in.
 
"cheap" is the term here. What if it rains, snows, settles, is disturbed? How much does he save?
 
"cheap" is the term here. What if it rains, snows, settles, is disturbed? How much does he save?
We don't want to spend money on concrete or decking here, precisely because no one will use this as a door. It's more like an operable floor to ceiling window. With a deep roof overhang above (rain/snow concern) and shallow non-expansive soil over limestone (settlement concern). Again, not required for egress. The occupants would strongly prefer to see decorative landscaping in the view from this glass/aluminum sliding door than a concrete or wood landing.

All of this is to say: resist the urge to make assumptions about things you don't know enough about. The only thing "cheap" is the quality of your post.
 
There was second story apartment here that had sliding glass doors opening from the living room to a failing deck. When the safety concern was brought up they demo'd the deck but decided they weren't going to replace it because the current tenant didn't use the deck. Obviously a huge safety issue so they installed a guard 42" tall with pickets at 4". Essentially they have a giant window they can open and close without safety issues. As far as I can tell you have a similar situation, albeit with less of a drop. But it's still a drop and the current tenant may not want to use it, but that doesn't mean the next tenant won't. Whatever solution you come up with it needs to be safe, if it's safe it should get approved, IMO.
 
There was second story apartment here that had sliding glass doors opening from the living room to a failing deck. When the safety concern was brought up they demo'd the deck but decided they weren't going to replace it because the current tenant didn't use the deck. Obviously a huge safety issue so they installed a guard 42" tall with pickets at 4". Essentially they have a giant window they can open and close without safety issues. As far as I can tell you have a similar situation, albeit with less of a drop. But it's still a drop and the current tenant may not want to use it, but that doesn't mean the next tenant won't. Whatever solution you come up with it needs to be safe, if it's safe it should get approved, IMO.
This is first floor. Grade, within 36" horizontally of the door opening, will be less than 7 3/4"below the top of threshold. Again, this is a question about whether IRC offers constraints on the material options available for "landing", that would require something more improved or more 'constructed' than compacted grade with a walkable gravel topping. So far, the answer is still no.
 
"cheap" is the term here. What if it rains, snows, settles, is disturbed? How much does he save?
wtravis says that a couple feet of concrete would ruin the view and gravel is aesthetically pleasing. Pinch enough pennies and you can afford a fancy shower curtain.
 
Define "solid" and "stable" please. Is there a measurement system?

Like the grass and dirt example, a million dollar wood landing becomes a hazard without maintenance. Curiously, it only applies to stairs, not doors as the thread discusses. It would be somewhat more tolerable if it was at least related to stairs required for egress. And do you intend for this to apply to the stairs - maybe just a few risers - from a deck to the ground, like pictures below?

1641922826416.png1641922939459.png
 
All of this is to say: resist the urge to make assumptions about things you don't know enough about. The only thing "cheap" is the quality of your post.
Not really. I think many readers would reach the same conclusion. You’re building a new home and you can’t afford $100 of concrete? There was probably enough leftover when the foundation was poured to create a small stoop.
 
Not really. I think many readers would reach the same conclusion. You’re building a new home and you can’t afford $100 of concrete? There was probably enough leftover when the foundation was poured to create a small stoop.
If you look at the picture I posted in #16, do you really think a 3' strip of pavement at the bottom of the cedar stairs would be any safer or look good at all? The question was never about not spending money, as the OP pointed out, but safety, aesthetics, and what the code requires. The question was not what you all like, but what is required by code.
 
Does "solid" does that mean you can't have spaces between the deck boards on the landing or you can't have stairways and landing like this:
1641930326040.png
Or does it mean other than liquid or fluid. Will need a definition if using "solid".
 
If you look at the picture I posted in #16, do you really think a 3' strip of pavement at the bottom of the cedar stairs would be any safer or look good at all? The question was never about not spending money, as the OP pointed out, but safety, aesthetics, and what the code requires. The question was not what you all like, but what is required by code.
“We don't want to spend money on concrete or decking here, precisely because no one will use this as a door.”
 
“We don't want to spend money on concrete or decking here, precisely because no one will use this as a door.”
"The occupants would strongly prefer to see decorative landscaping in the view from this glass/aluminum sliding door than a concrete or wood landing."
 
“The occupants would prefer”. Yeah, and many occupants would prefer to ignore numerous codes to make their house special.
 
Luckily ICE answered the question of what is required: "The gravel is sufficient to meet the code requirement for a landing."
 
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