Indoor basketball court

[palikona]

Hi,
I'm doing a commercial TI with a few half court basketball courts within an existing open space. I'm using an occupant load factor of 15sf per person, which gives me over 50 ppl per court (68 to be exact). This seems completely unrealistic, as there will only be 3 on 3 or sometimes 5 on 5 on these courts. I've explained this to the AHJ and he's making us go with the 15 sf per person. I assume because of this, we'll also need 2 exits per court, correct? With doors swinging out?

Another question: could one court have one exit into a corridor and the other exit into an adjoining court and then out an exit door, as long as that exit door is wide enough for the added occupant load?

I'd ask this of the AHJ but he's hard to reach and I trust all of you!

 

[classicT]

Why is the AHJ making you go with this OLF? Is the space also used for another function? If used as a cafeteria, seating area for a stage, etc., then perhaps I may see where the AHJ is going.

Otherwise, as a gymnasium, I'd say that an OLF of 50-gross (Exercise Rooms) is suitable

 

[palikona]

Why is the AHJ making you go with this OLF? Is the space also used for another function? If used as a cafeteria, seating area for a stage, etc., then perhaps I may see where the AHJ is going.

Otherwise, as a gymnasium, I'd say that an OLF of 50-gross (Exercise Rooms) is suitable

Totally agree!! It will not be used for anything but basketball. I think I will submit as an exercise room @ 50 gross and see what he says then.
Thank you.

 

[classicT]

Is this in a church, school, ....?

As a code official, this type of space is commonly a bit suspect, especially in churches. Most days, the space is used as intended for sports activity. But then one night, it becomes the local vendor craft and art show, or a cafeteria, or banquet hall, or whatever other assembly use. Give the AHJ the honest truth of what the space will be used for. BO may ask that you put a note on the plans that the space shall not be used for purposes other than sports activity.

 

[bill1952]

I'm with T on this. Possible but very hard to believe a large space like this will never be used for an assembly event. As soon as it's built, someone will want to use it or rent it for something with lots of people.

 

[ICE]

So far the only information is "commercial TI". I have been involved with several indoor basket ball courts as has been described. Heath clubs mostly and there was never an indication that other uses would crop up. If the main use were a school or church I would agree with the premise that gatherings would be held in the space but I don't know that yet.

The question of exiting of one court through the next raises a question of direction of door swing.

 

[Yikes]

I once designed a private Fitness Center where it had a full basketball court. The AHJ initially wanted it to be 15 Sf per person, based on Occupancy Classification of A-3 for "Gymnasiums" in IBC 303.4. We explained to the building official that IBC Table 1004.5 is not based on "Occupancy" of the space, it is based on the "Function" of the space:



Instead of 68 persons per half-court, the use of "exercise rooms" at 50SF/occupant gives you an occupant load of 21 people per half-court, which probably way more than would occur at a fitness center, even with a bunch of people standing out of bounds waiting their turn.

We explained to the Building Official that while many schools and churches use their A-3 gymnasiums as multipurpose meeting rooms, a private commercial fitness center would never do this. The space exists for one purpose: to play games of pickup basketball. Furthermore, the Fitness Center (a national chain) also had its own policies for management/insurance/liability purposes that did not allow more than 10 people on a half-court at any given time, and the court reservations were timed. A few people were allowed to wait inside the gym on the sidelines to get rotated in.

We then showed the building official IBC 1004.5 "exception", which gives them the discretion to lower the occupant load to match reality. (Actually, we went to the fire department plan checker first and got them to OK the lower occupant load, so that we could tell the BO that the FD had also given us the green light for a lower occupant load!). We agreed to post the lower maximum occupant load. I don't remember the actual number we ended up with, but it was less than 30 occupants for a full court.

 

[TheCommish]

Unless the BO can reasonably argue the space can be used as something, the BO should post the occupancy for Gym at 21 PPL, any other use is a violation of the COC.

a 10,000 SF warehouse could be used as an assembly space and trip all sorts of requirements, we should not being don't "what if" that space to and assembly use.

 

[bill1952]

Commish - not sure of second paragraph meaning but maybe like this.

There's a barn near us - used for weddings. No sign of agricultural activity and a big sign that says wedding barn and contact info for reserving. (I wonder if it really meets code for this use, not being on city water and no visible water tank giving some pause.) Warehouse weddings might be "in" someday.

 

[Yikes]

There's a barn near us - used for weddings. No sign of agricultural activity and a big sign that says wedding barn and contact info for reserving. (I wonder if it really meets code for this use, not being on city water and no visible water tank giving some pause.) Warehouse weddings might be "in" someday.

Sounds like a zoning / "code enforcement" issue.
I have relatives with a ranch+vineyards in the wine country near the Central Coast of California. Picturesque vineyards are in high demand as wedding venues. But most agricultural zones actually have significant restrictions of use other than agribusiness. In my relatives' case, the county allows a maximum of 5 "events" per year unless they want to pursue re-zoning, which is a political non-starter in this area.

From a building code standpoint, IBC 302.1 classifies occupancies according to "the primary purpose of the building... based on the nature of the hazards and risks to building occupants generally associated with the intended purpose of the building or structure."

Beverly Hills and Brentwood residents are known for hosting lavish political fundraising parties at their homes, but we don't reclassify the homes as assembly spaces, because that's not their primary/intended purpose. If we think huge parties are an ongoing problem as homes, we revise the building code, as California did when we increased balcony live loads in recent code cycles.

In the case if the exercise gym, the "primary/intended purpose" language of 302.1 and the "FUNCTION" of space header on table 1004.5 ought to give the building official and means of considering your reduced occupancy.

 

[bill1952]

This barn's intended purpose is for weddings. We're not in CA and I'm confident no neighbors or anyone cares if there are crowds there every weekend and in fact, probably hope it is a successful business.

 

[Yikes]

This barn's intended purpose is for weddings. We're not in CA and I'm confident no neighbors or anyone cares if there are crowds there every weekend and in fact, probably hope it is a successful business.

That sounds great.

Off topic, I have another relative with an Instagram-worthy landscaped property in the suburban/rural northwest U.S. They've hosted a number of outdoor weddings. They have plenty of land separating them from their neighbors, so you'd think it wouldn't be a problem. But wedding receptions often have a volatile mix of loud dance music, plenty of alcohol, long-lost friends, relatives and the occasional ex-lover to stir up long suppressed emotions. And in this part of the US, someone's either packing heat or keeps it in their pickup. So even if the couple getting married seems like a good fit for this venue in the neighborhood, there's always the potential for trouble that keeps them one phone call away from a zoning enforcement.

 

[TheCommish]

Commish - not sure of second paragraph meaning but maybe like this.

There's a barn near us - used for weddings. No sign of agricultural activity and a big sign that says wedding barn and contact info for reserving. (I wonder if it really meets code for this use, not being on city water and no visible water tank giving some pause.) Warehouse weddings might be "in" someday.

Bill1952 I rewrote the 2nd paragraph.

What I am try to say if someone presents a plan that is reasonable, I should not be trying to change it into something it might be, just incase. If I was to find someone using a building for something it's COC is not designed for that is the violation when it happens.

Currently we are building 2 commercial repair garages, one small enough to not require fire sprinklers, for work on compressed natural gas vehicles, with the appropriate ventilation and safety. The other an fuel oil dealer over 12,000 SF, fire sprinklered to .20 GPSF for repairs only. Both customers have been made abundantly aware the storage of the vehicles is not allowed in their buildings and the COC will reflect that, and if they want to change the used modifications will need to be made.

 

[bill1952]

Thanks Commish.

It's what I call the label game - call it something that is less restrictive (costs less) code wise even when it's clear it will there is likelihood or even intent to use it for other purposes. Clients have asked me to do this and other designers have recommended it. Now, if you want to say it's not a "primary" use and therefore OK, I guess it's OK until it isn't (as in body count).